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Are you acclimated to Star Trek: TOS Remastered? (1 Viewer)

Carabimero

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I've had my ST: TOS-R discs for many years now. With two exceptions, I love them. Last night I was watching BALANCE OF TERROR and when it was over, I realized that not once during the episode did I think: There's one of the "new" effects. The episode has become the new normal for me, pretty much.

I'm sure in an episode like THE DOOMSDAY MACHINE, which is effects heavy, I would think in passing about the new effects as I watched, but the point of this thread is to see if others are acclimated to TOS-R as being the "new normal" for them.

If you are not acclimated, what is preventing you from being acclimated?

Two problems will always jump out at me and prevent me from being 100% acclimated : 1) the dissolves are sometimes a second early or late because they didn't have the discrete elements to redo them and there was no other way to cover up the old dissolves; and 2) in some shots, in my opinion, the Enterprise looks too dark grey.

I understand the true color of the 11-foot studio model. But I will always believe that Gene Roddenberry intended for the Enterprise to APPEAR white on the screen. Good guys don't ride into town wearing grey hats. While it's true that Matt Jefferies once remarked he made the Enterprise grey so it would stand out more against white stars and such, in my professional opinion, there was a more pressing reason for the grey: If I was shooting with Etkachrome-based 35mm film stock today, and wanted to absorb blue spill, the perfect color to use on my model would be grey with a dash of green. That's a technical fact, as well. Not only that, but the grey is ideal for preventing loss of detail against the hot studio lights of that time while rendering a somewhat white appearance. Further, when the original model kits first appeared, Roddenberry signed off on the Enterprise being "white."

So to me, TOS-R missed Roddenberry's intention that the Enterprise appear, more or less, white. The often dark grey is something I don't think I'll ever acclimate to. Roddenberry intended the bad guys, the Klingon ships, to appear grey, not the Enterprise.

Having said all that, I rarely watch the old versions anymore and feel lucky to have TOS in HD with the new effects. I think CBS meant well when they produced this set. But Roddenberry never intended for the Enterprise to APPEAR that grey.

P.S. I have a memory of watching BALANCE OF TERROR - REMASTERED premiere on TV and the Enterprise was white. But soon thereafter the white ship vanished and was never to appear again. Nobody, however, seems able to corroborate my memory.
 
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Carabimero

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Yes, in some respects, the CGI looks very dated. But it's hard to fault the set for that. If they had waited 5 years the shots would have looked better, yes, but ten years from now they would probably look, relatively speaking, just as dated.
 

Josh Steinberg

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When I first got the Blu-rays, and was watching on a 40" set, I really enjoyed the new remastering (with that caveat you mentioned about the fades).

However, in time that's passed, I've upgraded to a 50" television, as well as an HD projector. When I watch the new effects on those larger screens, they look more like cheap videogames to me now than a believable Enterprise. I think viewed on a smaller screen, from a further distance away, was enough to make them passable, but I've returned to watching the original versions only.

To me, the original effects, dates as they may be, hold up better on a larger screen than the new CGI effects do. The show itself is obviously the product of the 1960s; its less jarring to me to see effects from that time period. I just accept the whole thing. But when I see the new effects, at this point, they usually take me out of the show. I understand their reasoning for doing them, but I think they date the show more than the original ones do.
 

The Obsolete Man

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Yes, in some respects, the CGI looks very dated. But it's hard to fault the set for that. If they had waited 5 years the shots would have looked better, yes, but ten years from now they would probably look, relatively speaking, just as dated.

I don't even think it's that.

Some episodes, the Enterprise looks beautiful and fully rendered and the shots stand up beside the model work of TNG and they look great.

But then some episodes, they look like a bad video game.

Did they use different teams for different episodes (like TNG S2 being done not as well by a different team than the ones who did S1), did they place a greater emphasis and care on more important episodes? I don't know.
 

Carabimero

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When I first got the Blu-rays, and was watching on a 40" set, I really enjoyed the new remastering (with that caveat you mentioned about the fades).

However, in time that's passed, I've upgraded to a 50" television, as well as an HD projector. When I watch the new effects on those larger screens, they look more like cheap videogames to me now than a believable Enterprise. I think viewed on a smaller screen, from a further distance away, was enough to make them passable, but I've returned to watching the original versions only.

To me, the original effects, dates as they may be, hold up better on a larger screen than the new CGI effects do. The show itself is obviously the product of the 1960s; its less jarring to me to see effects from that time period. I just accept the whole thing. But when I see the new effects, at this point, they usually take me out of the show. I understand their reasoning for doing them, but I think they date the show more than the original ones do.
Yes, I'm still watching on an old 40-inch. When I upgrade I bet I have the same reaction.
 
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Carabimero

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I don't even think it's that.

Some episodes, the Enterprise looks beautiful and fully rendered and the shots stand up beside the model work of TNG and they look great.

But then some episodes, they look like a bad video game.

Did they use different teams for different episodes (like TNG S2 being done not as well by a different team than the ones who did S1), did they place a greater emphasis and care on more important episodes? I don't know.
This was a few years before my tenure. I honestly don't know. But it does look like it. And I'll always swear they originally had the Enterprise as white and yanked it. So something was going on.
 

BobO'Link

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I've watched my set *once* with the new effects. But I've also only owned it for 8 months or so. Still I anticipate watching primarily the original going forward. I just like the original effects and looks of everything.

With the new effects the Enterprise frequently just doesn't look "right" with some angles making it look oddly shaped or misshapen. I've always been bothered with bleed-through on some of the mattes of the Enterprise but after seeing the new CGI version I find they're less bothersome. The new shots of the Enterprise frequently look like something out of a video game.

Some of the views presented on the viewscreen also don't look quite right. Those with a shuttlecraft look horrible.

I really thought I'd prefer the updated visuals on "The Tholian Web" but was surprised that I do not. The design of the Tholian ships is a major factor there as they are just too different from the original. The same holds true for most other effects heavy episodes. Some things look good but the overall effect just isn't right with poor design decisions having been made. One exception *may* be "The Doomsday Machine" but I'd really have to rewatch it to know for sure. I *do* know I've *always* been bothered by bleeding mattes on the original and wondered why they didn't make efforts to clean them up (also shots of the Enterprise). Frankly, I'd have been just as happy, if not more happy, had they simply used modern techniques to "fill in" the bleed in the mattes to make things look properly solid.

The updated planet shots are nice but I find I like the originals better. There's something special about those hand painted animations.

Much of this comes from having seen episodes dozens of times over the past 50 years and just knowing how it looks. I'm generally impressed with the updated effects work but they just don't ring true for me in many episodes. I *do* plan to watch through them again with the updated effects but firmly believe I'll do most of my viewings with the original. I'm happy enough that the video was fully remastered for both versions and that everything just looks so much better than the DVD set I own (the original set that looks like tricorders). I held off purchasing the remastered version until I got a BR player so I *could* choose between versions. I'm very glad I did.

The updated audio annoys me no end and the rerecorded theme music is off just enough that it rubs me wrong. They did a good job but it's not 100% accurate. On the new stereo/surround(?) mix voices sound buried in the mix with sound effects and music being far too loud - much like "modern" audio mixes. The new mix frequently reminds me of those old "mono reprocessed for stereo" recordings. Tolerable, but just tolerable. I watched a total of 2 episodes with the new audio before I permanently switched back to the original audio. That's a pain if you watch with the new effects as you have to switch the audio to the original mono. With the original video you automatically get the original audio.
 
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jcroy

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I'm now largely acclimated to the newer FX versions which are cropped to 16:9 widescreen, since these are the only versions I have watched on daily syndicated reruns over the past 5+ years. I watch these reruns almost every day when I get home.
 

The Obsolete Man

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Of what I've watched, there was one shot that completely took me out of an episode.

The shuttle landing in Journey to Babel.

I liked the composition of the shot and the action, but that begged for a traditional model to be used instead of the almost animated, cartoony looking CGI.
 

BobO'Link

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I just finished a double watching of the S1 episode "The Naked Time" mainly because it's *not* a "effects heavy" episode.

Opening shots of the Enterprise look more like a model than does the original matte shots of the actual model.

Wide shots of the planet look good but the original paintings look better. The first shot, with a partial planet visible and the Enterprise going into orbit, looks good but the planet looks just a bit "squished" almost as if it were composited for WS and then viewed in 4:3. The original open doesn't have the planet in the shot. It being added for the remastered effects version is minor and neither adds nor detracts.

The enhanced effects of Scotty cutting through the bulkhead are better - but mainly due to the inclusion of a visible laser beam.

I prefer the original shots of the spinning planet (any angle/version) in the viewscreen than the updated effects.

For me, the original effects are better on this episode.

I then did some effects comparisons with "Where No Man has Gone Before."

The flyby angle in the opening shot looks somewhat askew. The added nebula(?) in the background is a nice addition but superfluous. The most egregious thing here is they added color to some of the starts making a few bright red and bright blue. The starfield also looks somewhat "flat" as compared to the original.

As they "leave the galaxy" the external visuals are improved over the somewhat lackluster band of color in the original but the Enterprise still looks too much like a model/CGI which, to me, detracts more than the nebula effects add. I'm torn on this one but lean towards the original due to the look of the Enterprise.

The next segment where the Enterprise is limping home on impulse power has similar issues with the starfield and the overall look of the Enterprise. They changed the angle it flies across the screen and made the ship smaller. The original is better but suffers from some matte bleed through.

They fixed some of the starfield issues on the next segment open shot but the original planet looks better and the Enterprise angle is superior on the original while also having a larger view of the ship.

I also listened with the remixed audio on both of these. Part of my issue is the *level* of audio is much lower with the remixed version. I only need my set about 1/3 way up with the original audio but to get the same perceived level with the new audio it must be at 80% volume!

Again, I prefer the original visuals and audio.

Something very odd about "Where No Man has Gone Before" is the narration is missing from the original open! It *is* there on the remastered audio version. I've not pulled my original DVD set to see if that's how it was presented there but I doubt it was.

I also noticed the rear nacelle design has changed. On the original it's a fin/vent affair. The new has what looks like spheres/globes stuck in the end of the nacelle. It looks odd that way. There's also no color on the nacelle front, again making it look like a model. There is color, which is "animated," on the original.

I'm now going to look at a few of the more effects heavy episodes and see if my perception changes.
 
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Carabimero

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Of what I've watched, there was one shot that completely took me out of an episode.

The shuttle landing in Journey to Babel.

I liked the composition of the shot and the action, but that begged for a traditional model to be used instead of the almost animated, cartoony looking CGI.
I agree with you now that you mention it. The shuttle bay stuff in TOS-R looks like something out of THE LAST STARFIGHTER. And that's not a compliment.
 

Dave Jessup

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As a fan since the show was on NBC, and suffering through the edited presentations during the "syndication" years (until home video releases became a reality), my preference was, is, and will be for the episodes as first broadcast.

The "new" effects are more-or-less interesting, and the intent was noble - but those presentations just cannot be my "default" viewing.

In fact, when rewatching Man Trap this past September 8th, I used the "tricorder" DVD set, for its transfer had the correct opening title music; no matter that the blu has a superior picture transfer. (I'd planned to pull out my 16mm, but work schedule and fatigue prevented that.)
 

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Something very odd about "Where No Man has Gone Before" is the narration is missing from the open! I've not pulled my original DVD set to see if that's how it was presented there but I doubt it was.

I have the 2015 remastered-only DVD release, and checked on that "Where No Man Has Gone Before" episode, and the narration is there on my copy of it.
 

BobO'Link

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I have the 2015 remastered-only DVD release, and checked on that "Where No Man Has Gone Before" episode, and the narration is there on my copy of it.
Yes, it *is* on the remastered open (i.e. remixed audio version) but not the original audio mix. I wasn't very clear there. I edited the post to more accurately say what I found.
 

BobO'Link

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I watched both versions of "The Doomsday Machine" as it's one I've *always* felt needed a reworking due to the horrible job done with the original matte work. What surprised me is I came away with very mixed feelings on this one.

I'm still bothered by all the matte bleeding but I like the look of the *outside* of the Planet Killer better on the original. The interior is mostly better on the remastered version but it's not that bad on the original.

The shots of the Enterprise firing on the Planet Killer look just as cheesy with the remastered effects as they do with the original.

The shuttlecraft leaving the deck is better done on the original as are the effects of the Planet Killer firing on the Enterprise and other targets.

It annoys me no end that when looking at the rear view camera on the viewscreen the enhanced effects shots now *show the nacelles*!! Why!?!? This was not done with the original effects and just clutters and cramps the screen. Since it's possible to *not* see them they'd have never done it that way with the original design so why would someone stupidly put this design flaw in as a "enhancement"? This isn't the only episode in which this is done but it reminded me of the stupidity of this change.

The fronts of the nacelles are animated properly on this one which makes me think they got that fixed in the first season. It's also possible the shots I saw were exceptions. I also noticed the rear of the nacelles in a closing credit shot look like those in the remastered effects version with the sphere/globe shape in the middle. That shot *is* a original so maybe they changed the design at some point and I've never truly noticed. I *did* notice the rear of the nacelles still has vents in the original shots in this episode so maybe that credits shot is the oddball.

This is one episode that truly makes me wish they'd just cleaned up the original effects, filling in gaps and making matte shots solid. I really want to like the remastered effects but am surprised that I still prefer the original by a slim margin.

Next will be "The Tholian Web." Another episode I thought would benefit from updated effects. My recollection of watching it a few months back is it, too, has issues and I prefer the original. We'll see after I do a back-to-back viewing.
 
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Carabimero

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I hear what you're saying.

I'm a lot more forgiving with THE DOOMSDAY MACHINE, just because it's my all-time favorite Trek episode from any series and I don't want to hate it. Just as I got used to imperfections in the old version like the Constellation shaking as it heads toward the maw of the planet killer, I'll get used to imperfections in the new version.

It's a mind set, for sure. I guess we all have to pick our poison of imperfections--old or new.
 
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