New Apple Maps in iOS12, or how I can forgive why Apple screwed up Maps in iOS6 (1 Viewer)

[Carlo_M]

Okay so if you're a long time iPhone user like me, you recall in iOS the disastrous transition when Google pulled their map data support from Apple, and Apple had to launch a version of maps that was...well I'd say it was a redheaded stepchild to the former map app...but that would be insulting to redheaded stepchildren everywhere.

It was a debacle, leading to many user legitimate complaints, the firing of Scott Forstall (which many people don't regard as a bad thing), and an apology from Tim Cook.

Last month it was announced that Maps will be rebuilt from the ground up in iOS12.

But what was more interesting to me was this piece, which gives some history on the Maps app, specifically the transition away from Google data. Now a lot of this is news to me, and I acknowledge it's a Mac friendly website so who knows how much of it is true. But if much of it is true, and given where we are now with data privacy compared to back then (Facebook, Google, Russian hacking, etc.) I'm now prepared to cut Apple a lot more slack with how the Maps transition from Google went back in 2012. Here's a juicy tidbit from the piece:

Once upon a time, Google made Apple an offer it thought they couldn't refuse: Give us access to all your customers' location data and let us serve them ads in Maps, or do without critical features like vector tiles and turn-by-turn navigation. But Apple did refuse. And hard. And that meant the clock was suddenly ticking on Apple Maps. Fast.

 

[Carlo_M]

Also, I find it a bit invasive that every time I start up my car with my iPhone plugged in, a Google Maps notification tells me how many minutes from home/work I am. Now that on the surface sounds cool. Except I've told Google Maps to stop keeping track of my data and it still gives me those notifications.

Furthermore, every so often it tells me how far I am from Pawfessionals. A place/business that I've never heard of or visited.

So I'm looking forward to Apple's improvements and hopefully making Maps my daily driver again. If Apple can deliver on the goods, I'll uninstall Google Maps from my phone.

 

[DaveF]

There’s also this more recent news:
https://daringfireball.net/linked/2018/08/13/ap-google-location-history

 

[Carlo_M]

I suspected as much. It's funny because I don't mind it so much when it recommends home/work ETAs as most of the time, it's relevant. But it's when it starts offering me things where it thinks I want to go (Pawfessionals? WTF is that?) that then it becomes annoying.

I don't do anything illegal, and I have nothing to hide from my SO (so Google Maps isn't going to track me to a mistress's location) but if I want to turn that "feature" off, then it better well be truly off. And it clearly isn't.

 

[Sam Posten]

Steve Jobs sez hi.
https://9to5mac.com/2018/11/02/apple-maps-detail/

https://www.hometheaterforum.com/co...olling-over-in-his-grave.317784/#post-3871110

 

[Carlo_M]

That full Justin O'Beirne page is...exhaustive. Very nice write up. I'm glad Apple has made huge strides in vegetation and buildings/landmarks/parks/etc. Even with the oddities that Justin discovered (odd building height changes, etc).

What I really want from them--and this was the reason I switched from Apple Maps (AM) to Google Maps (GM) during the infamous "divorce of 2012"--is improved (in terms of accuracy and more importantly logic) navigation. In 2012, on several occasions the then-new AM sent me on directional goose chases, putting me on streets with no outputs, choosing poor routes, etc. while GM didn't.

Six years later, I find GM is now doing that. An example: I occasionally take a Lyft to work when I'm running late (otherwise I walk or take public transportation), and there's one maddening thing GM always asks drivers to do (and it seems like GM is the default for Lyft and Uber drivers). It asks them to cross Wilshire Boulevard from a street that has no stoplight. For those that don't know Wilshire Blvd in West L.A. it has four lanes going in either direction and two dedicated turn lanes. And it's arguably the busiest street in L.A. As in all of L.A. There's no way to cross 10 traffic-filled lanes, without either waiting 20 minutes for divine intervention, or to have a driver take his (and your) life in his hands and just insist on pissing off 10 lanes worth of angry commuters.

What's most maddening about the situation? Literally one block in either direction of GM's recommended route are two cross-streets with stoplights. But the directional algorithm GM uses insists on trying to cross Wilshire with no light. I'm betting GM's algorithm insists on "shortest distance" above all else.

I just mapped the route from home to work on Apple Maps...and it avoids that intersection altogether and recommends a street with a stoplight.

So whatever algorithm AM is using, it is avoiding that stupid situation. It's sacrificing a little distance (probably like a 0.1 mile difference in route) to put you on a logical path.

I'm going to start using it more and see if it makes sensible route recommendations as I go around the city.

As I said in my original post, I'll be thrilled to move back to AM because I completely dislike how much information Google is gathering from your use of GM, even when you tell it to stop tracking you.

 

[Clinton McClure]

Can't say I've ever had a problem with Apple Maps. As an aside, this past Sunday, I saw an Apple Maps van driving around the city.

 

[Ted Todorov]

Can't say I've ever had a problem with Apple Maps. As an aside, this past Sunday, I saw an Apple Maps van driving around the city.

In Arkansas? If I see the vans the next time I'm in Italy or Bulgaria, I'll be seriously impressed.

Speaking of Italy, I did indeed use Apple Maps on my iPad for a whole months driving turn-by-turn GPS in Sardinia. In the beginning I was switching back & forth between Apple & Google Maps, but the Apple Maps UI was just better, display easier to see/understand while driving, and errors were equally minor in both. (Also comically bad pronunciation of Italian street names were just as bad, though with different choices of bad pronunciation).

The main problem with Apple Maps is lack of first rate, complete list of stores, restaurants, etc. etc - basically a name for any building that is not a residence. Google has more info, Apple is too dependent on Yelp in the USA, but that's what O'Beirne says.

Edit: I should never leave out my usual complaint: bike paths and directions! I've been asking for them since iOS 6

 

[Clinton McClure]

In Arkansas?

Conway, Arkansas to be specific. City of about 65,000.

 

[Thomas Newton]

(Pawfessionals? WTF is that?)

A place where you go to confess that you only feed dry food – no wet food or table scraps – to your cat?

"Forgive me, Fluffy, for I have sinned."

(Not the real search result …)

 

[Sam Posten]

Womp womp
https://www.theverge.com/2018/11/14/18095863/google-maps-business-chat-rcs-messaging-feelings

But that leads me to my third feeling: what the heck is going on with Google Maps? It is becoming overburdened with so many features and design changes that it’s becoming harder and harder to just get directions in it.

 

[Sam Posten]

Roflwaffles good luck with that

https://adage.com/article/digital/google-flips-switch-its-next-big-money-maker-maps/2163976

 

[Mark Booth]

We drove past an Apple Maps vehicle yesterday. It was transitioning from Interstate 8 westbound to highway 125 southbound. We passed it on the long ramp. Further up on the 125, we exited and so did the Apple Maps vehicle. It drove past us on the 2-lane offramp.

So, when Apple Maps street view goes live, maybe our car will be in the images in those two spots? An Eternal Blue Mazda CX-5.

Mark

 

[DaveF]

I use Apple Maps a lot for local and non-local driving. But I’ve been forced to admit Google Maps are better are real-time traffic and routing in major cities. So, I check Apple’s directions against Google’s when I’m out of state. The takeaway, which is not a good takeaway and that Apple is trying to fix: You can’t trust Apple Maps and need to confirm against Google.

 

[Clinton McClure]

You can’t trust Apple Maps and need to confirm against Google.

The only time I have recently found Apple Maps to be wrong, Google maps was also wrong in the same location. Driving from Little Rock to Atlanta, they both showed a private residence to be an Exxon station.

For most things I have looked up, Apple Maps seems to be much more up to date. For example, my client at work has been in their current facility for 5 years. Apple Maps arial view shows a building with a parking lot full of cars, some of which I recognize as belonging to the employees there. Google maps arial view, on the other hand, shows an empty building with the old backup generator that was removed before my client moved in. Their address also incorrectly points to a building down the street.

I use Apple maps quite extensively for turn-by-turn directions while driving.

 

[Carlo_M]

Los Angeles is a pretty tricky city to get around, especially on the West Side, Downtown, and Orange County areas that are constantly getting new divisions, construction closing off streets, etc.

Years ago Google Maps was always superior to Apple Maps in turn by turn directions. I've found the gap has closed greatly, but for good and bad reasons. One, Apple Maps has definitely improved. Two, unfortunately, Google Maps has declined. Years ago GM rarely steered me wrong. Now, as Clinton mentioned, when AM has steered me wrong, I often find GM to make the same mistakes (or in the case of the downtown area, all new mistakes!).

The most damning thing for GM is that all my Lyft drivers use it, and I have a few routes that I'm intimately familiar with and when I don't feel like driving I use Lyft for convenience. GM always tries to have them cross major streets like Wilshire or Olympic (these are 4 lanes of heavy traffic in either direction...so 8 lanes total!) at intersections with no lights, when an intersection with a traffic light is just one or two blocks over. I'm always on my toes and looking over the driver's shoulder to see what the app is telling them to do and then correcting them to say "hey, it says to go down X street but really you want to be a couple blocks to the west because otherwise we'll be sitting waiting for Olympic to clear up...which is to say never.

 

[Clinton McClure]

The most damning thing for GM is that all my Lyft drivers use it, and I have a few routes that I'm intimately familiar with and when I don't feel like driving I use Lyft for convenience. GM always tries to have them cross major streets like Wilshire or Olympic (these are 4 lanes of heavy traffic in either direction...so 8 lanes total!) at intersections with no lights, when an intersection with a traffic light is just one or two blocks over. I'm always on my toes and looking over the driver's shoulder to see what the app is telling them to do and then correcting them to say "hey, it says to go down X street but really you want to be a couple blocks to the west because otherwise we'll be sitting waiting for Olympic to clear up...which is to say never.

This is the exact reason I stopped using Waze.

 

[DaveF]

It’s not that Apple Maps is wrong. It’s that in major metro areas, Google knows the actual traffic conditions better and seems to pick more sensible routes. That’s my experience with L.A. and D.C.

And it’s enough of an issue that my wife, a diehard Apple user switched to Google Maps a couple years ago and still questions why I persist in using Apple Maps so much.

 

[Clinton McClure]

It’s not that Apple Maps is wrong. It’s that in major metro areas, Google knows the actual traffic conditions better and seems to pick more sensible routes. That’s my experience with L.A. and D.C.

And it’s enough of an issue that my wife, a diehard Apple user switched to Google Maps a couple years ago and still questions why I persist in using Apple Maps so much.

Gotcha. Little Rock is generally the largest city in which I drive, aside from the occasional trip to Atlanta.

 

[Sam Posten]

What to look for in iOS 13:
https://www.macstories.net/stories/apple-maps-in-ios-13-sights-set-on-google/

https://techcrunch.com/2018/06/29/apple-is-rebuilding-maps-from-the-ground-up/

https://www.justinobeirne.com/new-apple-maps