Mystery & Crime Non-Series 30's-50's (1 Viewer)

[Robert Crawford]

This thread is to discuss "Mystery & Crime movies from the 30's thru 50's that are not associated with any film series like "Thin Man", "Charlie Chan", "The Saint" "Mr. Moto" and etc. In short, singular films like "Double Indemnity" or "The Night of the Hunter".

Today I'm watching my DVD of "Kiss the Blood Off My Hands" (1948) starring Joan Fontaine, Burt Lancaster and Robert Newton.

 

[Mysto]

Well - it doesn't give me a like button Robert but thanks for birthing the mystery and crime thread. Last night we watched

It doesn't seem to matter how many times I've seen it...
I still enjoy it. The best mystery films are those that you enjoy even after you know "who did it"

 

[Robert Crawford]

Well - it doesn't give me a like button Robert but thanks for birthing the mystery and crime thread. Last night we watched

It doesn't seem to matter how many times I've seen it...
I still enjoy it. The best mystery films are those that you enjoy even after you know "who did it"

That great movie never gets old and the film's ending is one of the best ever.

 

[Rustifer]

Oh boy...a whole new thread in which to strew the feverish musings of my mind.
I'm claiming dibs on "Arsenic & Old Lace". I'll get to it soon enough.

 

[Mysto]

Oh boy...a whole new thread in which to strew the feverish musings of my mind.
I'm claiming dibs on "Arsenic & Old Lace". I'll get to it soon enough.

What have we created???

 

[MartinP.]

That great movie [The Maltese Falcon] never gets old and the film's ending is one of the best ever.

I know many people like that film, which is why, when I didn't like it the first time I saw it, I've tried watching it again.
I've even seen it at AMPAS's Goldwyn Theatre on the big screen in a Film Noir series they had several years ago.

I've seen all of them:

• The Maltese Falcon (1931 film), adaptation of Dashiell Hammett novel, starring Ricardo Cortez and directed by Roy Del Ruth.
• The Maltese Falcon (1936 film), an adaptation, released as Satan Met a Lady, with Warren William, directed by William Dieterle.
• The Maltese Falcon (1941 film), best-known adaptation of novel, starring Humphrey Bogart and directed by John Huston.
• The Black Bird, 1975 comedic sequel film to The Maltese Falcon.

Guess I'll stop trying to understand!

What I do like, though, is the continuing mystery surrounding the Falcon statues used in the film! If you film aficionados haven't read this, there's a great Vanity Fair article about it from 2016 at this link:

https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2016/02/mystery-of-the-maltese-falcon

In one part of the article it says: "Milan is cagey about how he came to own his lead Falcon, saying only that it 'came' to him after he earned some publicity for selling one of the pianos played in Casablanca. He did manage to obtain a letter from a Warner Bros. archivist authenticating the bird, and saying it was used in the 1941 film. Milan had lent it to Warner, in fact, which displayed it in a company museum for years."

This particular lead Falcon I saw at the Warner museum one time. One of the arguments in the article about other Falcons, which weigh about six pounds, is that the lead one, supposedly around 47 lbs., wouldn't have been used in the film. I distinctly recall in the museum there was a monitor next to the Falcon statue showing a clip from the film where Bogart has a bit of noticeable trouble adjusting the Falcon in his arms and it's noted that's because of how heavy it was. This wasn't discussed in the article, however.

 

[Robert Crawford]

I know many people like that film, which is why, when I didn't like it the first time I saw it, I've tried watching it again.
I've even seen it at AMPAS's Goldwyn Theatre on the big screen in a Film Noir series they had several years ago.

I've seen all of them:

• The Maltese Falcon (1931 film), adaptation of Dashiell Hammett novel, starring Ricardo Cortez and directed by Roy Del Ruth.
• The Maltese Falcon (1936 film), an adaptation, released as Satan Met a Lady, with Warren William, directed by William Dieterle.
• The Maltese Falcon (1941 film), best-known adaptation of novel, starring Humphrey Bogart and directed by John Huston.
• The Black Bird, 1975 comedic sequel film to The Maltese Falcon.

Guess I'll stop trying to understand!

What I do like, though, is the continuing mystery surrounding the Falcon statues used in the film! If you film aficionados haven't read this, there's a great Vanity Fair article about it from 2016 at this link:

https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2016/02/mystery-of-the-maltese-falcon

In one part of the article it says: "Milan is cagey about how he came to own his lead Falcon, saying only that it 'came' to him after he earned some publicity for selling one of the pianos played in Casablanca. He did manage to obtain a letter from a Warner Bros. archivist authenticating the bird, and saying it was used in the 1941 film. Milan had lent it to Warner, in fact, which displayed it in a company museum for years."

This particular lead Falcon I saw at the Warner museum one time. One of the arguments in the article about other Falcons, which weigh about six pounds, is that the lead one, supposedly around 47 lbs., wouldn't have been used in the film. I distinctly recall in the museum there was a monitor next to the Falcon statue showing a clip from the film where Bogart has a bit of noticeable trouble adjusting the Falcon in his arms and it's noted that's because of how heavy it was. This wasn't discussed in the article, however.

I'm pretty sure you can name some of your favorite films that you think are great, in which other people, didn't like those certain movies, as it happens all the time in film appreciation. Subjective reasoning is what drives our individual opinions.

 

[Robert Crawford]

I thought "Kiss the Blood Off My Hands" was an okay film. Nothing great as the script was lacking in some regards, but Lancaster and Fontaine were pretty good as was Robert Newton. The ending was typical Production Code standard that hurts the effectiveness of the film even more so.

 

[Matt Hough]

I've never seen Kiss the Blood Off My Hands though I have heard of it before. Any chance it might show up on Noir Alley sometime?

 

[Robert Crawford]

I've never seen Kiss the Blood Off My Hands though I have heard of it before. Any chance it might show up on Noir Alley sometime?

Most definitely! Eddie Muller loves that film title's name and considers it among the five best named "Film Noir" titles. Furthermore, he considers it a film noir so IMO, he's going to show it, if he can get it cleared to do so.

 

[Mysto]

I know many people like that film, which is why, when I didn't like it the first time I saw it, I've tried watching it again.
I've even seen it at AMPAS's Goldwyn Theatre on the big screen in a Film Noir series they had several years ago.

I've seen all of them:

• The Maltese Falcon (1931 film), adaptation of Dashiell Hammett novel, starring Ricardo Cortez and directed by Roy Del Ruth.
• The Maltese Falcon (1936 film), an adaptation, released as Satan Met a Lady, with Warren William, directed by William Dieterle.
• The Maltese Falcon (1941 film), best-known adaptation of novel, starring Humphrey Bogart and directed by John Huston.
• The Black Bird, 1975 comedic sequel film to The Maltese Falcon.

Guess I'll stop trying to understand!

What I do like, though, is the continuing mystery surrounding the Falcon statues used in the film! If you film aficionados haven't read this, there's a great Vanity Fair article about it from 2016 at this link:

https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2016/02/mystery-of-the-maltese-falcon

In one part of the article it says: "Milan is cagey about how he came to own his lead Falcon, saying only that it 'came' to him after he earned some publicity for selling one of the pianos played in Casablanca. He did manage to obtain a letter from a Warner Bros. archivist authenticating the bird, and saying it was used in the 1941 film. Milan had lent it to Warner, in fact, which displayed it in a company museum for years."

This particular lead Falcon I saw at the Warner museum one time. One of the arguments in the article about other Falcons, which weigh about six pounds, is that the lead one, supposedly around 47 lbs., wouldn't have been used in the film. I distinctly recall in the museum there was a monitor next to the Falcon statue showing a clip from the film where Bogart has a bit of noticeable trouble adjusting the Falcon in his arms and it's noted that's because of how heavy it was. This wasn't discussed in the article, however.

Well I really enjoy the film but I get it. This film is highly stylized and is bound to rub some the wrong way. I never have a problem with differing views - that's part of what makes the hobby fun. I enjoy the feed back: I like it because... - I don't like it because... I have a problem with... We learn more about film by seeing it through others eyes. My only problem are those that insist their view is the correct and only view.
Thanks for the link on the bird. I had heard some of it before and as a prop almost as iconic as the ruby slippers - it is most interesting.

 

[Rustifer]

What have we created???

Looking forward to be a contributor in here, Marv. I'll try to follow the same three rules I use in my commentaries in other threads where I participate: Be entertaining, informative, and relevant.
Who knows, I may get good enough at it to even get a 'like' from Mr. Crawford.

 

[criblecoblis]

I'm quite excited by the prospects for this new thread. There are a lot of films in this genre that I love, and know well enough to write about.

 

[criblecoblis]

I know many people like that film [The Maltese Falcon], which is why, when I didn't like it the first time I saw it, I've tried watching it again.

Martin, do you like any of the versions of the story that you've seen? While I greatly enjoy the Cortez version, which is considerably more faithful to the novel than the Bogart version, the exceptional performances by Peter Lorre and Sydney Greenstreet make that version my favorite.

 

[Jeff Flugel]

Ooh, check out that new thread smell...thanks for starting this up, Robert! Now I'll have to be sure to watch something that can fit in here. Not the world's biggest noir fan, myself, but I do love a good mystery, private eye or cop film, so should be able to find some fun stuff to talk about here!

 

[Rustifer]

Ooh, check out that new thread smell

LOL! Good one, Jeff! Wish I'da thought of it...

I'm with you--I can take or leave noir (especially B-material), but a good old mystery is just the ticket for a rainy afternoon's delight. I've got several up my sleeve that I plan to unleash in here. They may wipe out that new thread smell, however.

 

[Robert Crawford]

Why the anti-noir sentiment by some of you?

 

[Rustifer]

Why the anti-noir sentiment by some of you?

Only on some of the lesser quality B-movies where "dark" is actually a production lighting issue rather than a genre. Ed Wood's Jail Bait, and Spartan Production's Fingerprints Don't Lie (1951) are a couple that come to mind.

I can watch Double Indemnity, Murder My Sweet, Maltese Falcon, DOA and the like all day long and consider it time well spent.

 

[MartinP.]

Martin, do you like any of the versions of the story that you've seen? While I greatly enjoy the Cortez version, which is considerably more faithful to the novel than the Bogart version, the exceptional performances by Peter Lorre and Sydney Greenstreet make that version my favorite.

Not really. After I saw Satan Met a Lady and found out it was based on Maltese Falcon I thought no wonder I didn't care for it, heh!

You are definitely correct in your assessment of Lorre and Greenstreet. Can you believe that was Sydney's very first film at age 61? Remarkable.

 

[MartinP.]

Why the anti-noir sentiment by some of you?

Robert, maybe you should provide a definition of film noir we can adhere to on this thread! If you want to, The definition of film noir might be like when a Supreme Court justice back in the day was asked to define pornography: "I can't define it, but I know it when I see it."

I love film noir, but it seems not everyone has the same idea of what exactly that is. I've read a couple books about it and many essays...and even some of those people don't agree totally. Realizing that nothing about film noir is set in stone, besides the atmospheric filmed qualities and the mood elements including, but not limited to, cynicism, pessimism, fatalism, and menace, one aspect of film noirs that I adopted and use as a yardstick after reading about the genre is that the protagonists in film noir movies are usually thrust into the plot situations beyond their initial control. That would explain why a lot of film noirs have private eyes and detectives in them. The plot, in essence, comes looking for them. And then what are they gonna do about it? What makes film noir a great genre is that even those that were making most of them didn't even know it at the time. What confuses the issue is that people also use the term to for their own purposes.

For example, I just rented two films from NetFlix that were from Warners Film Noir Classic Collection Vol. 5. In my opinion, neither of these are film noirs. Armored Car Robbery (1950) is a heist film. The title tells you exactly what to expect. While it has some of the visual style of film noirs, the "mood elements" I listed above aren't really present and the characters in this film know exactly what they're doing, whether they should be or not and whether it works out or not. It's decent enough and has some L.A. location filming I liked, particularly outside of the old Wrigley Field Baseball Park where Pride of the Yankees and Damn Yankees, among others, were filmed. Though you can find it listed as a film noir in places, I'm not convinced.

The other film cited as a film noir is Crime in the Streets (1956). This is one of those 1950's social issue films about juvenile delinquents, that seem so quaint to us now because of the way these issues were presented on film in the 1950's. This was based on a Reginald Rose Broadway play, which he adapted for the screen, which brings to mind the question...are there play noirs? (The story was also done on television.)

The adult in the film is social worker James Whitmore, trying to get these problem kids on the straight and narrow. One of them, whose title credit is "Introducing John Cassevetes" is out for revenge for a slight by a rival gang to one of his friends that put him in jail. It's true that these slum kids are living in a world of those "mood elements" that I described above, but they belong to the characters, not the film, a subtle but distinctive difference. In film noir movies these elements are accepted, in this film they're issues. James Whitmore's character is the antidote to that. So I can't qualify this as a film noir, either.

Also in the film is a really crazy Mark Rydell and a conflicted angst-ridden teenage Sal Mineo. It was directed by Don Siegel and has a score by Franz Waxman. Everything top-notch in this film. It was also filmed in widescreen. Though the main action takes place on a city street and alley, the entire film was shot on sound stages in West Hollywood at the Goldwyn Studio. It's a good film if you can appreciate the time period it was filmed in.

Anyone else seen either of these films?