A Few Words About A few words about...™ The Searchers -- in High Definition (1 Viewer)

[Into The Archives]

We lost two 70mm prints of Vertigo at the same theater in Westwood within two weeks. It’s A rough world out there.

It's a shame the Plitt Century Plaza didn’t book it (besides having the LA premiere), as LOA, Spartacus, and MFL were all spectacular on either screen 1 or 2 (with 1 having the edge). Avco was never the same when it was spit in 94, as Vertigo was the last film I saw there until a few years ago for work (now iPic)---but it was, before the 65/35 split, an incredible 70mm house in an area full of incredible 70mm theaters during the 80s/early 90s era.

Back to The Searchers, I heard last night that QT’s Vista is working on bringing the 70mm in sometime in May, but there is nothing official yet.

 

[Rob W]

70mm is nice (and nostalgic for many of us) but I wouldn't hesitate to see this in a proper 4K DCP presentation based on Mr. Harris' comments in various threads about digital vs film presentation and the differences & difficulties between the two.

Back in the pre-digital era, part of the fun / anticipation of seeing an older film in a theater or rep house was you never quite knew exactly what the print would be like until it hit the screen, with every reel change a new possibility.

 

[Tino]

The Barrymore Film Center in Fort Lee.

Thanks Pete. Please let us know if it gets booked here. I will definitely go.

 

[Chuck Pennington]

I attended a screening of the 70mm The Searchers restoration at The Egyptian this past Sunday night. Aside from one mistimed reel change near the end where the next reel wasn’t cued properly, the presentation was steady and flawless.

I’m happy to report that proper yellow tones have returned to the film, providing more natural flesh tones in interior scenes (on the people not weatherbeaten and sunburned, of course) and opening up detail in shadows. I could see that John Wayne and Jeffrey Hunter were wearing Levi’s as the branded stitching on their jeans was quite clear. Aside from a few shots here and there that stuck out as being a bit dupey compared to the surrounding shots (but still looking better than ever - the transitions/dissolves are flawless), this is going to make a superlative 4K release. I hope they downscale it for Blu-ray as well since the existing release always appeared overbaked.

The cropping appeared correct as well, without the end of the set backdrop and boom mic visible overhead like I saw at a full aperture screening in 1996/1997 in Boise, ID. It was part of the Library of Congress Film Registry tour, and it was screened after The Narrow Margin but without the proper matting needed as The Searchers wasn’t protected for 1.37:1 open matte projection.

 

[Robert Crawford]

I attended a screening of the 70mm The Searchers restoration at The Egyptian this past Sunday night. Aside from one mistimed reel change near the end where the next reel wasn’t cued properly, the presentation was steady and flawless.

I’m happy to report that proper yellow tones have returned to the film, providing more natural flesh tones in interior scenes (on the people not weatherbeaten and sunburned, of course) and opening up detail in shadows. I could see that John Wayne and Jeffrey Hunter were wearing Levi’s as the branded stitching on their jeans was quite clear. Aside from a few shots here and there that stuck out as being a bit dupey compared to the surrounding shots (but still looking better than ever - the transitions/dissolves are flawless), this is going to make a superlative 4K release. I hope they downscale it for Blu-ray as well since the existing release always appeared overbaked.

The cropping appeared correct as well, without the end of the set backdrop and boom mic visible overhead like I saw at a full aperture screening in 1996/1997 in Boise, ID. It was part of the Library of Congress Film Registry tour, and it was screened after The Narrow Margin but without the proper matting needed as The Searchers wasn’t protected for 1.37:1 open matte projection.

View attachment 221102

Thank you for your input.

 

[Mark-P]

The Searchers wasn’t protected for 1.37:1 open matte projection.

Open matte for VistaVision would be 1.5:1 not 1.37:1.

 

[Robert Harris]

Open matte for VistaVision would be 1.5:1 not 1.37:1.

I read the same comment, and questioned it as you may have read it. I then presumed that the meaning was that the 1.37 matte was left in place, exposing the frame out to about 1.5.

 

[Chuck Pennington]

I read the same comment, and questioned it as you may have read it. I then presumed that the meaning was that the 1.37 matte was left in place, exposing the frame out to about 1.5.

Which is why I mentioned the 1.37:1 film that played before The Searchers when I originally viewed it… The proper matte was not in place and boom mics and set lighting were visible in many key sequences, causing the audience to laugh. Even the earliest video release of The Searchers was framed to crop this stuff out (for the most part anyway - the end of the backdrop can still be seen in the sequence where they go to get Natalie Wood at night though in the first Laserdisc).

I attended a 35mm screening of Charade in 2007/2008 at the Ohio Theatre in Columbus and left after seeing more boom mics floating overhead throughout the first 15 minutes and hearing the audience giggle at the perceived incompetence of the filmmakers.

 

[Robert Harris]

Which is why I mentioned the 1.37:1 film that played before The Searchers when I originally viewed it… The proper matte was not in place and boom mics and set lighting were visible in many key sequences, causing the audience to laugh. Even the earliest video release of The Searchers was framed to crop this stuff out (for the most part anyway - the end of the backdrop can still be seen in the sequence where they go to get Natalie Wood at night though in the first Laserdisc).

I attended a 35mm screening of Charade in 2007/2008 at the Ohio Theatre in Columbus and left after seeing more boom mics floating overhead throughout the first 15 minutes and hearing the audience giggle at the perceived incompetence of the filmmakers.

... or the projectionist, but they didn't understand that.

 

[haineshisway]

Did I just read someone saying "proper yellow tones have been restored" - this is worrisome - the previous transfer was filled with yellow tones, especially on the bricks for the main titles. I suspect the verbiage here is confusing and I'll still hold out hope that the color has been fixed.

 

[Music lover10]

I’m happy to report that proper yellow tones have returned to the film, providing more natural flesh tones in interior scenes (on the people not weatherbeaten and sunburned, of course) and opening up detail in shadows. I could see that John Wayne and Jeffrey Hunter were wearing Levi’s as the branded stitching on their jeans was quite clear. Aside from a few shots here and there that stuck out as being a bit dupey compared to the surrounding shots (but still looking better than ever - the transitions/dissolves are flawless), this is going to make a superlative 4K release. I hope they downscale it for Blu-ray as well since the existing release always appeared overbaked.

Would your impression be that the yellows were not over-saturated?

Unsure what you mean by 'overbaked' with the exisiting release.

What do you mean by downscaling for Blu-ray?

Thanks

 

[haineshisway]

Would your impression be that the yellows were not over-saturated?

Unsure what you mean by 'overbaked' with the exisiting release.

What do you mean by downscaling for Blu-ray?

Thanks

Given previous posts by Mr. Pennington, I would take all verbiage with a large container of salt Like most of us, he has his own way of talking and seeing things that certainly don't jibe with MY way of talking and seeing things. I mean, the previous Blu-ray is yellow to a fault so I'm not sure what yellow tones have been restored could possibly mean. There are hundreds of posts about the color of the previous transfer.

And, as always, the reports are all over the place - one person says it looks NOT saturated, another says yellow tones and on and on and on. I will wait to see this great film with my own eyeballs and I will tell it plain, based on the 35mm and 16mm IB Tech prints I owned for many, many years.

 

[Chuck Pennington]

Given previous posts by Mr. Pennington, I would take all verbiage with a large container of salt Like most of us, he has his own way of talking and seeing things that certainly don't jibe with MY way of talking and seeing things. I mean, the previous Blu-ray is yellow to a fault so I'm not sure what yellow tones have been restored could possibly mean. There are hundreds of posts about the color of the previous transfer.

And, as always, the reports are all over the place - one person says it looks NOT saturated, another says yellow tones and on and on and on. I will wait to see this great film with my own eyeballs and I will tell it plain, based on the 35mm and 16mm IB Tech prints I owned for many, many years.

The current release is yellow to a fault due to trying the color correct digitally the faded negative. This is why I stated “proper yellow tones” as the proper yellow layer seems to have been restored, changing ALL of the other colors in the image that have an yellow in them.

Take what I say with a grain of salt, HainesHisWay. After all, you’re the one extolling the virtues of the overly blue Blu-ray releases of so many vintage Fox films as “finally” being correct - like The King and I. You are the reason I rarely visit this forum or post.

 

[Chuck Pennington]

Would your impression be that the yellows were not over-saturated?

Unsure what you mean by 'overbaked' with the exisiting release.

What do you mean by downscaling for Blu-ray?

Thanks

I didn’t feel like anything on the 70mm The Searchers was oversaturated at all. There were subtle shades along with bold colors, though the latter was most evident in scarves and native costumes and flags. Vera Miles looked particularly lovely, and her hair didn’t look strawberry blonde as it appeared to me on the current Blu-ray.

Overbaked meaning that the current Blu-ray looks nothing like organic film to me; it appears contrasty, oversaturated, and mistimed - like it was processed quite a bit digitally to work with the elements available as well as technological limitations of the time. It was certainly leagues ahead in sharpness over prior video releases, but then it was also in 4x+ the resolution.

Downscaling for Blu-ray means just what it sounds like. Blu-ray has a resolution of 1920x1080, a little less than theatrical 2K at 2048 × 1080. This is a 4K restoration of 4096 × 2160 which would need to be downscaled to Blu-ray, like all other 4K masters.

 

[Robert Harris]

The current release is yellow to a fault due to trying the color correct digitally the faded negative. This is why I stated “proper yellow tones” as the proper yellow layer seems to have been restored, changing ALL of the other colors in the image that have an yellow in them.

Take what I say with a grain of salt, HainesHisWay. After all, you’re the one extolling the virtues of the overly blue Blu-ray releases of so many vintage Fox films as “finally” being correct - like The King and I. You are the reason I rarely visit this forum or post.

AFAIK, the OCN was NOT digitally corrected for fade.

 

[Music lover10]

AFAIK, the OCN was NOT digitally corrected for fade.

Did you happen to see the link discussing steps of the restoration? A work around for the faded layer?

 

[Robert Harris]

Did you happen to see the link discussing steps of the restoration? A work around for the faded layer?

I did not.

 

[Music lover10]

I did not.

"The Searchers" Restored by Warner Brothers and Released in 70mm

Hope the link works. I may have misrepresented the actual 'work around'.

 

[Robert Harris]

"The Searchers" Restored by Warner Brothers and Released in 70mm

Hope the link works. I may have misrepresented the actual 'work around'.

Yes. I’m slightly aware of the process. I’ve read that it was first used in 2000, in the analogue world to cover damage to the Y layer on a film called Rear Window, and then perfected c. 2005 for use via digital for Williamsburg: The Story of a Patriot.

It was first used by WB in 2007 for N x NW.

When using this process, there should be zero incorrect yellow balance seen in the image. If used correctly, with further digital balance to make up for any fade in the intermediate M dye layer along with any minimal loss of C, the resultant image should look precisely as it did on day one, as a perfect representation of the film.

Re-reading Mr. Pennington’s comments, he doesn’t seem to be saying there was any Y problem, but rather, the entire color telemetry now appears to be working flawlessly aside from any dupes. As it should, noted as compared to the master used for the current Blu-ray, which digitally pushed Y into the image to make up for fade.

 

[haineshisway]

Yes. I’m slightly aware of the process. I’ve read that it was first used in 2000, in the analogue world to cover damage to the Y layer on a film called Rear Window, and then perfected c. 2005 for use via digital for Williamsburg: The Story of a Patriot.

It was first used by WB in 2007 for N x NW.

When using this process, there should be zero incorrect yellow balance seen in the image. If used correctly, with further digital balance to make up for any fade in the intermediate M dye layer along with any minimal loss of C, the resultant image should look precisely as it did on day one, as a perfect representation of the film.

Re-reading Mr. Pennington’s comments, he doesn’t seem to be saying there was any Y problem, but rather, the entire color telemetry now appears to be working flawlessly aside from any dupes. As it should, noted as compared to the master used for the current Blu-ray, which digitally pushed Y into the image to make up for fade.

I just get nervous when someone uses the word yellow. Mr. Pennington isn't as clear as you are, verbiage-wise. and I remain ever hopeful that this is everything we're all hoping it should be.