Digital Review Aliens Digital UHD Review (1 Viewer)

[Worth]

I find it interesting that there are such diametrically opposed opinions about this title. I wanted to love it, really I did.

I don’t know how else to describe it other than this just looks “wrong” to me. I’m glad others are enjoying it - I wish I could, too. Thankfully, I find the previous blu-ray decent looking, so I’ll just stick with that.

 

[Robert Crawford]

I find it interesting that there are such diametrically opposed opinions about this title. I wanted to love it, really I did.

What can I say, I love how this 4K/Dolby Vision digital looked on my OLED and immensely enjoyed watching the theatrical version again. Furthermore, a shoutout to the Dolby Atmos soundtrack. I'm looking forward to doing the same with the director's cut.

 

[Michael Osadciw]

This is great conversation and respectful of our opinions (for those that may be joining the thread here.)

Using AI to generate artificial “intelligent” detail for a 4K release is causing a clear divide in our opinions.

From what I’ve seen thus far and my best assessment of what I think has happened (without actually knowing the true process), the AI tools are attempting to reconstruct details based on what it predicts is there vs. what’s actually present in the current 2K DI after it’s been stripped of grain.

For the pro-AI camp, the result is incredibly clean and “detailed”. For the pro-film 4K OCN-scan camp (the one I’m in), this AI trick looks too processed for film and doesn’t preserve the integrity of the medium. Unfortunately, that affects my ability to enjoy the story being told and the available Blu-ray will likely continue to be my preference.

 

[Michael Osadciw]

Preserving dynamic range in audio, doing proper remastering like mobile Fidelity sound lab does…

Remember: remastering is different than remixing. Remixing goes back to the multitracks to bring individual instruments more forward or back into the mix and can allow a mixing engineer to eliminate or reduce time-era processing that dates a recording. Remastering can be 1) like a fresh capture of the final master recording that was completed at the time of release or, 2) can be EQd to and dynamically compressed to modern listening situations (like in a car or on headphones)

when I look at the new remasters of the James Cameron movies…What I am seeing is detail, I've never seen before noise that was inherent to the film removed without destroying the image.

But what if what you’re seeing is not real detail that was captured? If it’s mostly artificially generated using an algorithm?

This is like if the remastering of an older music album used AI to add more treble to the high hats and filled in additional bass for the kick drum or bass guitar if both of those pieces had been mixed too quietly in the original final master based on the limited fidelity of the equipment (eg speakers) at the time.

I would not enjoy as much the AI-interpretation of the recorded performance over going back to the multitracks and remixing the album to actually bring forward in the mix the musician’s talent. If the multitracks are available, that would be the most faithful process.

 

[Nathan_H]

Not new 4K scans from OCNs (some are confirmed 2K scans of the OCN) and then AI-applied processing for depth and detail based on what AI believes to be detail after grain has been stripped away.

This is disappointing. Has this been documented anywhere?

 

[Robert Crawford]

For one pro-AI camp, the result is incredibly clean and “detailed”. For the pro-film 4K OCN-scan camp (the one I’m in), this AI trick looks too processed for film and doesn’t preserve the integrity of the medium. Unfortunately, that affects my ability to enjoy the story being told and the available Blu-ray will likely continue to be my preference.

I don't like being labeled by any person. I'm not in either camp as I simply judge each video presentation by how they look on my display. I can enjoy the story being told by either process. If the directors of these films aren't preserving the integrity of the medium according to you, then your issues should be taken up to them and their studio partners.

 

[Michael Osadciw]

According to Bill Hunt at The Digital Bits, we’re not sure if this is using the available 2K scan or a new 4K scan. The Abyss is a new 4K scan which is great news. From what I’m seeing, I have significant doubts that Aliens is a fresh 4K scan of the OCN. I’ll eat my words if it actually is.

Link to The Digital Bits:

Aliens (4K Digital Review)

More than half a century after the events of Ridley Scott’s original Alien (1979), Ellen Ripley (Sigourney Weaver), the sole survivor of the commercial towing vessel Nostromo, is rescued from hypersleep in her drifting escape shuttle. Upon returning to Earth, Ripley is made to face the wrath of...

thedigitalbits.com

 

[Neil Middlemiss]

Where is it documented that AI was part of the process? am watching it now and trying to understand what I am seeing but could find no reputable source stating AI was used in the process to bring this to 4k

 

[Michael Osadciw]

I don't like being labeled by any person. I'm not in either camp as I simply judge each video presentation by how they look on my display. I can enjoy the story being told by either process. If the directors of these films aren't preserving the integrity of the medium according to you, then your issues should be taken up to them and their studio partners.

That’s a great way to shut down the discussion, Robert.

My posting on HTF is my way to take this up with the studio partners!

You know I’ve been a part of HTF since the early 2000s (and a reviewer) and historically what we wrote on these forums were actively read by studio partners and our comments/suggestions mattered. Our feedback was often integral to great quality releases. Are you inferring that HTF is no longer relevant in this regard?

 

[Michael Osadciw]

Where is it documented that AI was part of the process?

I believe Bill Hunt is quite credible. We’ve met him many times as part of the HTF family over the years. I continue to be a subscriber to his website just to support industry reporting.

Aliens (4K Digital Review)

More than half a century after the events of Ridley Scott’s original Alien (1979), Ellen Ripley (Sigourney Weaver), the sole survivor of the commercial towing vessel Nostromo, is rescued from hypersleep in her drifting escape shuttle. Upon returning to Earth, Ripley is made to face the wrath of...

thedigitalbits.com

 

[Neil Middlemiss]

I believe Bill Hunt is quite credible. We’ve met him many times as part of the HTF family over the years. I continue to be a subscriber to his website just to support industry reporting.

Aliens (4K Digital Review)

More than half a century after the events of Ridley Scott’s original Alien (1979), Ellen Ripley (Sigourney Weaver), the sole survivor of the commercial towing vessel Nostromo, is rescued from hypersleep in her drifting escape shuttle. Upon returning to Earth, Ripley is made to face the wrath of...

thedigitalbits.com

Thanks. I know of (and trust) Bill, just wasn’t sure that’s where it had been called out (I don’t tend to read his reviews).

I am a bit unsure how I feel about the result. Aliens is my all time favorite movie, a film I have seen more than any other over the years (a couple hundred times at least). The level of detail is staggering. It’s so crisp with detail that the lack of film grain that’s been part of the experience for as long as I can remember really stands out. It’s been many years since I watched the theatrical cut as I much prefer the longer cut, and I am able to marvel at the film, story, performances, sets, and special effects as I always have, but I am very focused on just how crisp it all looks, too. I guess a little distracted, or at least, more focused on it than I expected.

It is both amazing and unusual. Brilliant but baffling. I can live with this and not complain too much but part of me wishes for a version that was closer to what would have been achieved without that AI tweak.

James Horner’s score, my favorite soundtrack of all time, in Dolby Atmos was worth the price of admission alone for me, though!

 

[Robert Crawford]

That’s a great way to shut down the discussion, Robert.

My posting on HTF is my way to take this up with the studio partners!

You know I’ve been a part of HTF since the early 2000s (and a reviewer) and historically what we wrote on these forums were actively read by studio partners and our comments/suggestions mattered. Our feedback was often integral to great quality releases. Are you inferring that HTF is no longer relevant in this regard?

That’s not true! I have zero problems with you discussing this subject matter but I resent you trying to label people on this forum as being pro-AI or pro-film 4K OCN-scan. It’s like you’re placing blame on those of us that like how Aliens looks on our display. That it’s our fault that James Cameron and the studio made such a choice.

I believe that directors with the status of James Cameron and George Lucas don’t give much thought to what we, the movie audience think about the look of their films on our displays. Their motivations in these home video matters are strictly personal as filmmakers. They view these movies as the following in the case of Aliens:

I think the studios still read this forum but I seriously doubt that James Cameron does the same. In closing, post away on this subject matter but your issues are not with any of us but should be directed at those making these home video decisions.

 

[Michael Osadciw]

That’s not true! I have zero problems with you discussing this subject matter

Thank you, as it should be!

but I resent you trying to label people on this forum as being pro-AI or pro-film 4K OCN-scan. It’s like you’re placing blame on those of us that like how Aliens looks on our display. That it’s our fault that James Cameron and the studio made such a choice.

Hang on, my friend. I placed no blame on anyone in my previous posts. I am also not labelling anyone, but just calling out either “like it” or “dislike it.”

Pro-AI = a person likes the AI results

Pro-4K scan of OCN without algorithm = dislike the AI results

There’s not much gray area here so, ok, I generalised “camps” of preference.

 

[Robert Crawford]

Thank you, as it should be!


Hang on, my friend. I placed no blame on anyone in my previous posts. I am also not labelling anyone, but just calling out either “like it” or “dislike it.”

Pro-AI = a person likes the AI results

Pro-4K scan of OCN without algorithm = dislike the AI results

There’s not much gray area here so, ok, I generalised “camps” of preference.

I can enjoy both results so there is a gray area among us.

 

[Michael Osadciw]

The actor, William Hope, who played Lt. Gorman, was only 30 years old when this film was shot.

In this comparison image capture (posted below), tap the screen to see the effects of AI and compared to the 1080p Blu-Ray. It’s best viewed on a computer screen. If on your phone, move around the image to see Gorman’s face.

The AI results makes Gorman’s face look like he healed from burns as the AI tries to follow natural facial lines that should be subtle (result is too aggressive).

His ear is made of wax.

There is no new detail on his upper cheek after stripped of heavy grain.

His hair, which is shaved closely to his skin, looks gray at 30 or he’s grown porcupine quills. It seems the AI mistook his skin under his buzz cut as gray hair.

I don’t feel this is an improvement over what we’ve seen with other OCN 4K film transfers that have been incredible in their own right.

This is my message to those involved with this release (if reading here): I do not like this AI application.

It’s fine for data-reduced streaming services where grain makes compression systems go nuts, but the same file is on Kaleidescape and that’s a massive disservice/disappointment to this film.

Fellow readers, you be the judge and kindly post your thoughts. Tap on the image to switch between the 1080p and 4K releases. Note the 4K is brought down to BT.709-SDR and the resolution of your viewing monitor has limits. Think of this as an exercise to view the use of AI using a still image.

https://slow.pics/c/VKqamF7X

 

[Nathan_H]

Watched the opening c.15 minutes of the prior HD release and this new UHD edition and have to agree that in some shots actors look like they are animated (cgi) rather than real people in the new remaster, especially Reiser, versus how they look in the prior edition.

 

[Robert Crawford]

Watched the opening c.15 minutes of the prior HD release and this new UHD edition and have to agree that in some shots actors look like they are animated (cgi) rather than real people in the new remaster, especially Reiser, versus how they look in the prior edition.

Not quite but whatever.

 

[DaveF]

I’m glad to see a full roster of special features with the streaming release (though that’s tempered by the confusion of different features on different services).

A reason I still buy discs and rip to HTPC is for special features and commentaries. Digital purchases just didn’t have the bonus materials until seemingly recently.

A major release like Aliens getting a complete disc-like release will make it easier for me to let go of discs and the HTPC endeavor.

 

[Michael Osadciw]

Not quite but whatever.

That’s a very dismissive comment towards @Nathan_H for someone who, only six posts ago, exclaimed was not shutting down conversation on the topic.

@Nathan_H thank you for your comment. Let’s consider the use of AI on video content with some pros and cons.

It’s safe to say that 4K scans of OCNs can go under significant clean-up if a “restoration” or, when giving an older release a fresh scan, for some minor clean up, colouring, and HDR application for UHD. The result never 1:1 with the “original” as there will be some manual/auto changes based on decisions made. This is understood.

There are plenty of tools colourists use to manipulate the image, but with the “spirit of film” in mind during this process, we embrace the end result because the resultant image maintains that spirit. But if these tools are used beyond the spirit of film, we object; consider some early HDR “film” releases (e.g. Starship Troopers was far too “hot”).

Enter AI: as a tool to fill in gaps, it’ll have positive use. It may help predict missing words on ancient, decayed scrolls/scripture. It may help fill in gaps with old war footage (ref: They Shall Not Grow Old) or a more modern use of it on The Beatles “Get Back”. From a historical standpoint, to help piece together our past, AI has incredible promise.

Where the line can get fuzzy is with its use on art as we know it. Movies (film) is moving art. During an era, the art was captured on the medium of film and thus in our digital age, the spirit of film survives with some filmmakers on new releases. And in our digital age, the reproduction of analogue film with digital storage/transmission and displays should maintain the spirit of film as well.

Successful use of AI on the art of film would be when the spirit of film is preserved. Like using HDR lightly, AI use by the operator would be mild and/or advanced enough to not draw attention to itself as it currently is with these Cameron releases.

 

[Robert Crawford]

That’s a very dismissive comment towards @Nathan_H for someone who, only six posts ago, exclaimed was not shutting down conversation on the topic.

@Nathan_H thank you for your comment. Let’s consider the use of AI on video content with some pros and cons.

It’s safe to say that 4K scans of OCNs can go under significant clean-up if a “restoration” or, when giving an older release a fresh scan, for some minor clean up, colouring, and HDR application for UHD. The result never 1:1 with the “original” as there will be some manual/auto changes based on decisions made. This is understood.

There are plenty of tools colourists use to manipulate the image, but with the “spirit of film” in mind during this process, we embrace the end result because the resultant image maintains that spirit. But if these tools are used beyond the spirit of film, we object; consider some early HDR “film” releases (e.g. Starship Troopers was far too “hot”).

Enter AI: as a tool to fill in gaps, it’ll have positive use. It may help predict missing words on ancient, decayed scrolls/scripture. It may help fill in gaps with old war footage (ref: They Shall Not Grow Old) or a more modern use of it on The Beatles “Get Back”. From a historical standpoint, to help piece together our past, AI has incredible promise.

Where the line can get fuzzy is with its use on art as we know it. Movies (film) is moving art. During an era, the art was captured on the medium of film and thus in our digital age, the spirit of film survives with some filmmakers on new releases. And in our digital age, the reproduction of analogue film with digital storage/transmission and displays should maintain the spirit of film as well.

Successful use of AI on the art of film would be when the spirit of film is preserved. Like using HDR lightly, AI use by the operator would be mild and/or advanced enough to not draw attention to itself as it currently is with these Cameron releases.

That’s my initial response to hyperbole! If that’s a problem for you then so be it.