UHD Review A Few Words About A few words about...™ - Aliens -- in 4k UHD (1 Viewer)

[mi_z]

Hi Josh!

I disagree with some of this, though I am not in a position to know if we, the forums and its collectors, did or didn't keep up our end of things.

I tend to think we did.

I'll use the three Cameron releases as an example. Yes, there are a lot of complaints about the transfers but in the end, those of us who wanted these films are going to purchase them no matter what. The reason is, that there's only one shot to own them.

Sure, we bitch about this and that, but we buy the films we want. And, when the studios decide to take those transfers and improve upon them, we buy it again over and over.

Where I think you and I agree on collectors not being a reliable indicator...

As I see it, we as avid collectors who were being listened to by the studios back in the early 2000s were in a bubble. At the time, I think the studios put too much attention on requests for releases that appealed to a smaller sect of the collective rather than something that would be appealing to the public at large.

This kind of disconnect has been one of the factors that has led to the decline of physical media. We are a very committed, passionate group of individuals. If you were to scour the Internet, our voices seem strong, though, for the studios, it has turned into a noisy mess of discontent. Meanwhile, the larger sect of the public doesn't worry about transfer quality or physical media for that matter. They are streaming movies on their tablets.

The bootleg Blu Ray exists (and looks better) and the Blu Ray of Aliens exists (and looks better) so, no, there is no way I am buying this crap. It's pretty simple really. Also, disc buying is an ethusiast market at this point. Catering to the masses is pointless since they don't buy discs. Even these popular titles will sell a fraction of what a disc sold in the past...

 

[Wayne Klein]

Hi, sorry to ask but, the Special Edition of ALIENS (there is no director's cut as every cut of ALIENS is a director's cut), was never released in theaters. You must be confusing with The Abyss?

I believe he is referring to a special screening of the film on the Fox lot. When I worked at Fox we would have movies screened on the lot (it’s where ai first saw Reuben, Rueben as an example) for those that worked at the studio.

 

[Wayne Klein]

Who's JF and what's FC?

i believe he may mean William Friedkin for The French Connection.

 

[Colin Jacobson]

To your point, whether or not it was an intended effect, the grain can actually add to the visual experience, I.e., “Aliens”, it gave it a gritty feel that matched the intent of Cameron‘s film.

100%. The grain gave the movie a sense of verisimilitude that's gone now that it's all shiny 'n' peppy.

 

[mi_z]

IMO, there are few of us that are noticing such an issue when the movie is in motion, at our normal sitting position and as we're caught up in the actual film.

Whether or not you notice it when watching... it is clearly worse. They've sharpened edges so much it appears like skin is pealing. If you can't notice a change, the change should still be an improvement and not a downgrade.

And if you can't notice it, why are you buying this in the first place? Either way the course of action is to not buy it.

 

[Robert Crawford]

Whether or not you notice it when watching... it is clearly worse. They've sharpened edges so much it appears like skin is pealing. If you can't notice a change, the change should still be an improvement and not a downgrade.

And if you can't notice it, why are you buying this in the first place? Either way the course of action is to not buy it.

It's not clearly noticeable by me. Also, what I buy is my business.

 

[TonyD]

i believe he may mean William Friedkin for The French Connection.

That was addressed a long time ago in here.

It’s going in circles at this point.

 

[Wayne Klein]

That was addressed a long time ago in here.

It’s going in circles at this point.

ah well, the disadvantage on being behind in my reading.

 

[Chip_HT]

And they are right. At most we should accept multiple versions being made available like directors cuts, but completely burying the original is a big no-no. There is zero valid argument for this.

Doesn't matter what kind of film it is either. I would take Aliens over My Fair Lady any day. It is not up to someone to decide what is important and what isn't.

I think you misunderstood the point I was making.

Josh said that filmmakers are human beings, and just as prone to making bad decisions as anyone else. I was saying that you could apply the same logic to the other side of the argument -- the fans are also human beings also prone to bad decisions.

So why is it always the assumption that the filmmaker made a bad decision and that the fans know best?

 

[Wayne Klein]

This is an interesting review/analysis...

Makes a compelling argument that this is indeed an upscale.

 

[sbjork]

Makes a compelling argument that this is indeed an upscale.

You're even farther behind on your reading! Go back a few pages and you'll see some responses when someone else posted that video. It has issues.

 

[Wayne Klein]

To be fair, I find the 4K “Aliens” an interesting watch. It’s certainly a slightly different experience but I did like the grainier look for the film as it added character to it.

You're even farther behind on your reading! Go back a few pages and you'll see some responses when someone else posted that video. It has issues.

will do. Thanks!

 

[Tino]

is deluding themselves.

I think you mean you’re “dictating yourself”.

 

[Ross Gowland]

100%. The grain gave the movie a sense of verisimilitude that's gone now that it's all shiny 'n' peppy.

Yes, to steal a phrase from Marshall McLuhan, the medium is the message.

For me, the film stock is indivisible from the film. It’s all part of the experience. I want an Eighties film to have the graininess that was a feature of the image at the time in the same way I want Technicolor to look like Technicolor and for black and white film to not be in colour.

 

[Neil S. Bulk]

Makes a compelling argument that this is indeed an upscale.

There's no denying it. Robert Harris got a quote from Bill Hunt in this post.

"Aliens was mastered from the 2K scan used for the previous Blu-ray release."

 

[Wayne Klein]

I am a bit surprised that they (and I’m sure this has been brought up) didn't do a fresh 4K scan unless something happened with the OCN or IP. Curious considering they did do me for “True Lie“ and “The Abyss”. I’m assuming it was cost driven.

 

[Brian Husar]

Good for you but I want to hear from the silent majority. The vocal minority have already expressed their displeasure repeatedly in this thread.

Ok. I like the transfers. I am one of those people that like grain, specifically because if you lose the grain, you can lose details. Do these look like they were shot in 35MM? No. But it is not that DNR smearing mess we had to deal with during the early days of blu ray. Cameron always hated the grain in Aliens, he had said he was always unhappy. He didn’t like grain, not because it was detail in the image, but because it was a hindrance to his vision. All I know is on my setup Aliens and the others totally killed. I have seen horrible transfers, these do not even come close to Disney’s blu ray of The Color Of Money which to me is the worst transfer of a movie hands down. If I think a transfer is horrible I will say it. American Graffiti. But, whatever tools he used, he reduced the grain and brought out more detail to the way that he wanted it. We always champion director approved transfers from Criterion with no thought at all if the filmmaker or cinematographer changed the color. No one has yet to remark on the CGI fix Scorsese did to a shot in Goodfellas, see the shot where Karen gets scared and leaves Jimmy Conway. If Cameron wants them this way, if this was always his vision to get these to look the way he wants them, I am all for it. Watched the special edition of Aliens the other day and really enjoyed it. We are getting too serious at times.

 

[Wayne Klein]

Ok. I like the transfers. I am one of those people that like grain, specifically because if you lose the grain, you can lose details. Do these look like they were shot in 35MM? No. But it is not that DNR smearing mess we had to deal with during the early days of blu ray. Cameron always hated the grain in Aliens, he had said he was always unhappy. He didn’t like grain, not because it was detail in the image, but because it was a hindrance to his vision. All I know is on my setup Aliens and the others totally killed. I have seen horrible transfers, these do not even come close to Disney’s blu ray of The Color Of Money which to me is the worst transfer of a movie hands down. If I think a transfer is horrible I will say it. American Graffiti. But, whatever tools he used, he reduced the grain and brought out more detail to the way that he wanted it. We always champion director approved transfers from Criterion with no thought at all if the filmmaker or cinematographer changed the color. No one has yet to remark on the CGI fix Scorsese did to a shot in Goodfellas, see the shot where Karen gets scared and leaves Jimmy Conway. If Cameron wants them this way, if this was always his vision to get these to look the way he wants them, I am all for it. Watched the special edition of Aliens the other day and really enjoyed it. We are getting to serious at times.

I enjoyed it as well but do admit that the “mood” of the film was enhanced by the gritty look. Certainly Cameron was unhappy with the level of grain for this film. He’s voiced his disappointment over the years. The last Blu-ray did eliminate some of the grainy texture as well. Of the three films just released “The Abyss” looks the best followed by “Aliens” and a far distant “True Lies”.

 

[Brian Husar]

I enjoyed it as well but do admit that the “mood” of the film was enhanced by the gritty look. Certainly Cameron was unhappy with the level of grain for this film. He’s voiced his disappointment over the years. The last Blu-ray did eliminate some of the grainy texture as well. Of the three films just released “The Abyss” looks the best followed by “Aliens” and a far distant “True Lies”.

The Abyss looks awesome.

 

[Steen DK]

You're even farther behind on your reading! Go back a few pages and you'll see some responses when someone else posted that video. It has issues.

Did you watch the technical analysis of the HDR and colour space? It is pretty clear that the UHD contains nothing that isn't already on the BD. It's just filtered and sharpened.


I've hated sharpening since the days of VHS. But, ok, VHS was so fuzzy and TVs were so small back then that it could be excused.

Then DVDs came along, and they would still apply sharpening. Why? Habit, I guess - and TVs hadn't really grown much in size.

Then we got HD and much bigger TVs! Surely now artificial sharpening would be a thing of the past! And it mostly was... mostly, but there were still loads of films on BD that had plenty of sharpening applied.

But with 4K there could absolutely not be a need for sharpening any longer, right? Surely THIS time we could be done with this s***? Nope, even when TVs and media have resolutions that the human eye can barely detect, we apparently still need artificial sharpening to give us those high-contrast edges that some people love - and we end up with these Cameron films and the awful Lord of the Rings UHDs. I find it utterly baffling.


And, yes, Crawford, I've seen the Aliens UHD, and I hate the look of it.