A Few Words About A few words about...™ Leon: The Professional -- in 4k UHD Blu-ray (1 Viewer)

[Carlo_M]

From penthouse to outhouse. I was so excited by Nolan October...oh well. Let's hope it still happens

 

[JediFonger]

Hi Robert!

I've got MANY MANY questions. I only ask that you excuse my ignorance as I do not work in industry and approach this from hobbyist arm-chair level conversation at best (in another words very minimal understanding):

1. Since modern color film stock (~1985-present) latitude / capture is HDR (~11 stops) vs. Standard Rec 709 video is limited to ~7 stops or ~200:1 contrast.

When films like Leon gets a fresh scan using current film scanning equipment, are these scanning companies creating fresh DI that is capturing the full 11 stops from 35mm film?

2. In another words... are we finally capable of capturing as 99% of the information that is inherent in film from color palette, grayscale, film grain qualities and everything about it? Now, I'm going to use audio as I understand more about that than film, when you have tape or vinyl there is no digital equivalent because you are dealing with 'infinite steps' of audio information on analog medium vs. digital. and while you can have very high resolution audio files... they are still no where close to "infinite" so i use that understanding for film... we will probably never be able to capture 100% of film aspects because it is (by nature) an analog medium.

Having said all of that... with 4k, HDR and modern equipment... i do feel like that we have made one more step closer towards coming CLOSE to approximating the original films.

3. Let's say for the sake of argument the film scanning process did capture 35mm in the full 11stops and as close to the full color as possible on this film... if this were released in something like Dolby Vision rec2020... would the colors on this not look way better than any other previous media releases like Blu-Ray/DVDs?


4. If #3 is true... why isn't the industry rushing to re-define the 'color-space' as it were of home media. i just see so much potential in back-catalog rescans and re-releases of great classics that will finally show us all those finer details that just weren't possible before 4k+HDR. i know it's expensive... but in some ways we have arrived at the 'holy grail' of home media where it can encapsulate more than 90% of the film experience.

 

[Robert Harris]

Hi Robert!

I've got MANY MANY questions. I only ask that you excuse my ignorance as I do not work in industry and approach this from hobbyist arm-chair level conversation at best (in another words very minimal understanding):

1. Since modern color film stock (~1985-present) latitude / capture is HDR (~11 stops) vs. Standard Rec 709 video is limited to ~7 stops or ~200:1 contrast.

When films like Leon gets a fresh scan using current film scanning equipment, are these scanning companies creating fresh DI that is capturing the full 11 stops from 35mm film?

2. In another words... are we finally capable of capturing as 99% of the information that is inherent in film from color palette, grayscale, film grain qualities and everything about it? Now, I'm going to use audio as I understand more about that than film, when you have tape or vinyl there is no digital equivalent because you are dealing with 'infinite steps' of audio information on analog medium vs. digital. and while you can have very high resolution audio files... they are still no where close to "infinite" so i use that understanding for film... we will probably never be able to capture 100% of film aspects because it is (by nature) an analog medium.

Having said all of that... with 4k, HDR and modern equipment... i do feel like that we have made one more step closer towards coming CLOSE to approximating the original films.

3. Let's say for the sake of argument the film scanning process did capture 35mm in the full 11stops and as close to the full color as possible on this film... if this were released in something like Dolby Vision rec2020... would the colors on this not look way better than any other previous media releases like Blu-Ray/DVDs?


4. If #3 is true... why isn't the industry rushing to re-define the 'color-space' as it were of home media. i just see so much potential in back-catalog rescans and re-releases of great classics that will finally show us all those finer details that just weren't possible before 4k+HDR. i know it's expensive... but in some ways we have arrived at the 'holy grail' of home media where it can encapsulate more than 90% of the film experience.

The simple answer, is "yes," were very close to capturing everything on film, but it really only matters to a small number of cinephiles.

Whether theatrically, or home theater, most people don't care enough to properly set up,equipment. Many theaters just want an image on screen.

So does it even really matter?

Yes, if one is recording out to film, as an asset.

Not really, although the sizzle sounds nice, if everything isnt tweaked to perfection.

As to where we are today in reproducing the proper look...

With UHD, HDR10, and now DolbyVision, we really don't need anything more.

As far as older films, many weren't meant to be seen in true 4k, as problems will come to fore. Adventures of Robin Hood in HD is already too revealing. Films such as 2001 will have to be lowered in resolution or digitally massaged to properly work.

 

[Roger Mathus]

Both Fifth Element and Leon - The Professional in 4k were released yesterday but seem in short supply. Amazon did not ship my pre-order so I went to the local Best Buy and purchased both. They only had one copy of each which I purchased. Both look super.

 

[JediFonger]

wow do older film stock not resolve well in hdr/4k

can 70mm capture more colors than 35? than 16? if so does scanning from 70mm prints give us more hdr? for example: 1992's baraka or hell even south pacific those crazy over saturated colors are going to look insane in hdr

 

[Robert Harris]

wow do older film stock not resolve well in hdr/4k

can 70mm capture more colors than 35? than 16? if so does scanning from 70mm prints give us more hdr? for example: 1992's baraka or hell even south pacific those crazy over saturated colors are going to look insane in hdr

Scanning 70mm prints give you garbage.

 

[Edwin-S]

Scanning 70mm prints give you garbage.

I'm curious. How so?

 

[DavidMiller]

I'm curious. How so?

So am I.. I have heard that you can get a 8K+ DI from 70mm...

 

[Edwin-S]

So am I.. I have heard that you can get a 8K+ DI from 70mm...

I thought there have been some films scanned at 8K already. If that is the case and scanning 70mm elements gives garbage, then what are those 8K scans being taken from?

 

[Mike2001]

He said prints, not elements.

 

[Edwin-S]

He said prints, not elements.

So he did. My mistake.

 

[OliverK]

Scanning 70mm prints give you garbage.

I have seens scans of prints over the years and they have become a lot better, even scans of faded prints.

Here is a before and after comparison that shows the degree to which a decent picture can be recovered today:


I own the Blu-ray version and while it has issues they mostly have to do with the extremely low budget that was available.

So if only a print is available today there is much more that can be done with it than before.

Regarding The Professional I look forward to seeing it in 4k for the first time. From watching The Mask of Zorro in 4k I have seen what Sony can do if everything comes together for 35mm.

 

[Michel_Hafner]

wow do older film stock not resolve well in hdr/4k
can 70mm capture more colors than 35? than 16? if so does scanning from 70mm prints give us more hdr?

Colour and HDR does not depend on size but what stock was used, how it was exposed and developed. Older stock usually has less dynamic range than newer stock so less HDR is possible. And if the elements have faded and need digital correction even less range remains for HDR before noise takes over.

 

[JediFonger]

so 709 might be "enough" for older films then?

Colour and HDR does not depend on size but what stock was used, how it was exposed and developed. Older stock usually has less dynamic range than newer stock so less HDR is possible. And if the elements have faded and need digital correction even less range remains for HDR before noise takes over.

 

[OliverK]

so 709 might be "enough" for older films then?

The new format offers:

better compression
higher bitrate
bigger color space
higher bit depth
higher resolution
HDR

Even without HDR improvements are possible in the other areas, so no need to go back to 709 for older movies.

 

[Carlo_M]

On the plus side, a recent Digital Bits post (some time this week) mentioned that Nolan confirmed that he's "working on 4K" masters for his Batman trilogy, which is good and hopefully bodes well for their rumored release later this year (and also to fix the edge enhancement/ringing that plagued The Dark Knight).

 

[reel-to-reel]

I first saw The Professional on TV on HBO in the 90's. It became a favorite of mine from then on. I followed it through VHS>>DVD>>Superbit DVD>>Blu-ray>>BD Mastered in 4K>>and finally, 4K UHD.

Eric Serra's soundtrack is one of the best marriages of sound and film that I know of.

In my foray into digital video media, in the early 2000s, watching The Professional DVD on my 25" RCA TV was and still is a special memory of mine. My Sony DVD Multi-player allowed me to save a screenshot from a DVD as a Screensaver. I carefully captured just the right image of Leon and Mathilda together on the rooftop. It was Glorious!!

 

[Nelson Au]

Wow, this is an old thread that I missed. I’ve never seen The Professional, but I know of it. I just added it to my list of titles to pick up!

I liked Reno in Ronin and the kid was pretty good in that Galaxy Far away.

 

[Jeffrey D]

I have this on BluRay. Need to see it again- it’s been forever. I really like the extended cut- the scenes that show how Leon gets into dwellings. I like Oldman’s work too.

 

[OliverK]

I have this on BluRay. Need to see it again- it’s been forever. I really like the extended cut- the scenes that show how Leon gets into dwellings. I like Oldman’s work too.

If you are a fan of the movie you may want to consider the Blu-ray from the new master unless you already have it:

Léon: The Professional • US Supreme Cinema Series Blu-ray vs. US Blu-ray

caps-a-holic.com

Léon: The Professional • US Supreme Cinema Series Blu-ray vs. US Blu-ray

caps-a-holic.com

The UHD is even better but the difference between the Blu-rays of the old and the new master is bigger than between the new Blu-ray and the UHD.