It's clearly the first stab because the Turbine disc is the one that was from the uncut german tv version and in that one he screams on stab one. Universal messed up the audio.
I don’t see any reason why Universal has to explain anything at this late date. Each of us will believe whatever we want to believe.
I guess they don't "have to" but it would be nice since they are selling the movie.
Ha. Nice. Once again, people thinking huge conglomerates owe them individual attention. And sorry, big companies are not going to admit to "mistakes" unless it a mistake of such magnitude that lives are at stake, a true pressing screw up that renders the film unviewable or something that would cause the stock to tumble. It may even become a legal issue and trigger lots of "stuff" that we can't even imagine. The 100 people or so on this forum who actually care what # stab that Arbogast screams in, is not going to force Universal to reconsider and repress, repackage, remarket a new improved version. They are not going to refund people for purchasing this version.
This is a post from a German company called Turbine Media that makes box sets and Blu-Rays in another forum:
and it doesnt seem to be available apart from a box set of all the films and presently 48 UK pounds on Amazon.uk. Dilemma time. 4k w an audio error or blu ray w the correct cut?This is a post from a German company called Turbine Media that makes box sets and Blu-Rays in another forum:
"The Universal BD / UHD is based on a new scan of the original materials plus the uncut parts coming from our 4K scan made for our BD ("2K") release of the film. Unfortunately, and this is beyond our control, the audio editing wasn't spot on so the death of Arbogast is off on all uncut releases except ours."
So you can get the turbine version if you want the scream correct but it is BD only not 4k.
The English audio track on the turbine disc has no groans.
What groans?
We've all told you repeatedly that the AFI is incorrect, as they often are. And I WAS there, so...We've had this discussion before, and I know this probably won't convince anyone any more than it did then, but here is some info from the AFI about the movie:
https://catalog.afi.com/Catalog/moviedetails/53260
The relevant paragraph:
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The Hitchcock papers reveal that the National Catholic Legion of Decency demanded three cuts before giving the picture a “B,” or “morally objectionable in part for all” rating. The Legion required that scenes of Marion removing her bra be deleted, that the shots showing Norman washing his hands of blood be shortened and that the number of times Arbogast is stabbed be reduced from four to two. Psycho was eventually issued the “B” rating by the Legion, which announced: “The sensational use of sex and the excessive violence, which partially mar the development of the story, are considered to be entirely lacking in dramatic justification and to be highly objectionable.”
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Since the film was given a "B" rating, this suggests to me that the US theatrical release was in fact the standard version that we've seen all these decades. The speculation I've heard and tend to agree with is that materials for the film may have already gone out for international dubbing, and the slightly longer version may have been released in some countries.
I wasn't there, so I can't say anything for certain. And yes, Truffaut's book contained a still from one of the censored shots, so it was apparently out there in some form. Maybe the uncut version played in France as well as in Germany.
But I just can't see Universal suddenly deciding to acquiesce to the Legion of Decency years after the film had already been out, and after things like ROSEMARY'S BABY had been released. (All the while advertising it as "uncut.")
And the idea that this was a TV cut is absurd. There is no way PSYCHO would have played on broadcast TV in the 1960s with only those three cuts. Indeed, according to that AFI info page, the New York Times reported that nine minutes of the film had been cut for the intended network debut on CBS in 1966, which of course never happened.
So, that's where I'm still at.
Maybe you were living in Germany or France at the time. It was 1960 and nobody's memory is perfect.
Yes, I am absolutely certain that I and thousands of other audience members were not mysteriously treated to the German or French versions of PSYCHO in Cincinnati, Ohio and later in and around Los Angeles, California for the 6-7 times I saw it in their theaters from 1960 to 1964 or so.
I still maintain one of the reasons the far less lurid, bloody and violent elements of the peephole scene, Norman's hands in the clean up scene and the stabbing of Arboghast were left out as they had been edited out for the more family-friendly late 1960s TV version is because PSYCHO and the Bates Mansion and Motel from PSYCHO were then becoming high profile iconic images and selling points for what was by the early 1970s emerging as a hugely profitable...family-friendly...major amusement park attraction and ongoing synergistic promotional platform for their movies and the park known as the Universal Studio Tours.
We've had this discussion before, and I know this probably won't convince anyone any more than it did then, but here is some info from the AFI about the movie:
https://catalog.afi.com/Catalog/moviedetails/53260
The relevant paragraph:
------
The Hitchcock papers reveal that the National Catholic Legion of Decency demanded three cuts before giving the picture a “B,” or “morally objectionable in part for all” rating. The Legion required that scenes of Marion removing her bra be deleted, that the shots showing Norman washing his hands of blood be shortened and that the number of times Arbogast is stabbed be reduced from four to two. Psycho was eventually issued the “B” rating by the Legion, which announced: “The sensational use of sex and the excessive violence, which partially mar the development of the story, are considered to be entirely lacking in dramatic justification and to be highly objectionable.”
------
Since the film was given a "B" rating, this suggests to me that the US theatrical release was in fact the standard version that we've seen all these decades. The speculation I've heard and tend to agree with is that materials for the film may have already gone out for international dubbing, and the slightly longer version may have been released in some countries.
I wasn't there, so I can't say anything for certain. And yes, Truffaut's book contained a still from one of the censored shots, so it was apparently out there in some form. Maybe the uncut version played in France as well as in Germany.
But I just can't see Universal suddenly deciding to acquiesce to the Legion of Decency years after the film had already been out, and after things like ROSEMARY'S BABY had been released. (All the while advertising it as "uncut.")
And the idea that this was a TV cut is absurd. There is no way PSYCHO would have played on broadcast TV in the 1960s with only those three cuts. Indeed, according to that AFI info page, the New York Times reported that nine minutes of the film had been cut for the intended network debut on CBS in 1966, which of course never happened.
So, that's where I'm still at.
"...the tidy cuts had mostly gone unnoticed during that unique window between theatrical distribution of it and home video versions of it." - yes, no one ever talked about Psycho being edited. None of my teachers in film school or in books. Psycho was never TOUCH OF EVIL where the only version shown was an acknowledged compromised version. this is an odd head scratching one but your explanation makes sense. Hitchcock was not thinking that there would be a robust home video market where people could sit at home and do frame by frame comparisons.
Anyone who saw this in 1960, as I did on its opening day, had it seared into memory. Period. Especially the multiple stabs of Martin Balsam. To regurgitate the endless point, the little trims were made years after the theatrical release.Maybe you were living in Germany or France at the time. It was 1960 and nobody's memory is perfect.
