International THE ALAMO (John Wayne's extended cut) (1 Viewer)

[OliverK]

I guess someone at MGM really doesn't like John Wayne.

Looks to me as if they do not seem to care much about any of their more niche large format movies on Blu-ray.

Khartoum does look good but not great as MGM in their wisdom decided to only pay for an HD scan of the large format elements. It was pretty good back then but is not state of the art any more. Exodus and Solomon and Sheba were kind of OK years ago but could also be revisited and there are others that, too who would benefit from some TLC. The Hallelujah Trail is still only available in cropped form even in its new iteration and then there is The Greatest Story Ever Told that still looks worse than some upscaled DVDs.

Of all their more obscure large format movies the one with the recent transfers from 35mm elements, The Alamo and The Hallelujah Trail, are the best looking releases despite their shortcomings. Therefore when it comes to quality The Alamo actually is the best looking release of the bunch and the problem is more that it could have been even better had MGM not refused an external restoration that would have cost them very little.

 

[SwatDB]

Looks to me as if they do not seem to care much about any of their more niche large format movies on Blu-ray.

Khartoum does look good but not great as MGM in their wisdom decided to only pay for an HD scan of the large format elements. It was pretty good back then but is not state of the art any more. Exodus and Solomon and Sheba were kind of OK years ago but could also be revisited and there are others that, too who would benefit from some TLC. The Hallelujah Trail is still only available in cropped form even in its new iteration and then there is The Greatest Story Ever Told that still looks worse than some upscaled DVDs.

Of all their more obscure large format movies the one with the recent transfers from 35mm elements, The Alamo and The Hallelujah Trail, are the best looking releases despite their shortcomings. Therefore when it comes to quality The Alamo actually is the best looking release of the bunch and the problem is more that it could have been even better had MGM not refused an external restoration that would have cost them very little.

Non the less I'm still holding my breath and sitting tight like a duck for a green-light for a Restoration/Remastering of the Large format elements/4 and 6-Track mixes whether MGM likes it or not.
Besides, are you aware that there was a longer version of "The Hallelujah Trail" (1965) on VHS [159 min] released by MGM/UA Home Video in 1991: https://www.schnittberichte.com/schnittbericht.php?ID=450955
Unfortunately it's a Pan and Scan release. In a perfect world, I wish this longer version was letterboxed.

Pardon for being off-topic, Robert Crawford

 

[Robert Harris]

selective preservation in other words ?

No preservation, with the exception of an x-copy of the roadshow tracks.

 

[SwatDB]

No preservation, with the exception of an x-copy of the roadshow tracks.

6-Track reels? Like back in the 2003 rediscovery by James Kroeper, then later utilized for the 2013 Restoration of "Mad World"?

 

[Robert Harris]

6-Track reels? Like back in the 2003 rediscovery by James Kroeper, then later utilized for the 2013 Restoration of "Mad World"?

X-copies of both the 6-tracks of the general release version as well as the 70mm print. Thus, audio is not a problem.

 

[OliverK]

X-copies of both the 6-tracks of the general release version as well as the 70mm print. Thus, audio is not a problem.

Good to know that we are already half way there...

 

[Robert Harris]

Good to know that we are already half way there...

A bit of the way

 

[SwatDB]

Good to know that we are already half way there...

Just Imagining a Restored/Remastered version of the film on BD

Tools for a new remaster:

High resolution scan of the 65mm OCN/IP of the General Release Version
70mm 6-Track [General Release] mix

Tools for a restoration of the Extended [Roadshow] Version:

An HD Scan of the 70mm Print [Yes, I know the Toronto Print is no longer an option, any other known 70mm Prints. The X-copy?]
70mm 6-Track [Roadshow] mix (for the X-copy?)

Just imagine if MGM Studios, Inc. had plans to support the "Lasergraphics Director [10K] Scanner". That would be amazing since this scanner also supports 65/70mm and Horizontal film formats like VistaVision, Technirama, Super Technirama 70 and IMAX.

 

[OliverK]

A bit of the way

A journey of a thousand miles...

I am glad that the audio is not an issue any more but there is so much work left to be done that I hope for somebody higher up at MGM to reassess the situation with The Alamo.

 

[Josh Steinberg]

Looks to me as if they do not seem to care much about any of their more niche large format movies on Blu-ray.

I don’t really think it’s so much a question of “care” or “not care” but just the unfortunate practical reality that those titles can cost six figures or more to fully restore and master for home video, while the revenue potential for a Blu-ray release is more likely to be in the four to low five figure range. No for-profit company is going to spend $100,000 or more on a product that’s only going to pull in $10,000 or less.

 

[Robert Harris]

I don’t really think it’s so much a question of “care” or “not care” but just the unfortunate practical reality that those titles can cost six figures or more to fully restore and master for home video, while the revenue potential for a Blu-ray release is more likely to be in the four to low five figure range. No for-profit company is going to spend $100,000 or more on a product that’s only going to pull in $10,000 or less.

The Alamo could have made its costs back in theatrical. No home video or streaming necessary.

 

[Josh Steinberg]

The Alamo could have made its costs back in theatrical. No home video or streaming necessary.

As one of the higher profile titles I agree that’s possible - but for the niche titles OliverK was discussing, not as cut and dried.

 

[mskaye]

The Alamo could have made its costs back in theatrical. No home video or streaming necessary.

Restored and nicely promoted, it could play forever in Texas, Midwest, Southwest and the South and take in lots of money. Heck, it could have played at the Cinerama Dome for a week or so...

 

[OliverK]

I don’t really think it’s so much a question of “care” or “not care” but just the unfortunate practical reality that those titles can cost six figures or more to fully restore and master for home video, while the revenue potential for a Blu-ray release is more likely to be in the four to low five figure range. No for-profit company is going to spend $100,000 or more on a product that’s only going to pull in $10,000 or less.

Looking only at revenue potential is not my definition of caring but indeed you are correctly describing why somebody looking at this from a perspective of revenue will not be willing to spend money on these titles.

 

[OliverK]

As one of the higher profile titles I agree that’s possible - but for the niche titles OliverK was discussing, not as cut and dried.

Certainly not cut and dried but there may be some potential for The Greatest Story Ever Told as a biblical epic shot in the US.
It supposedly was attended by people of faith in significant numbers so that may be a source of revenue in one way or another.

 

[mskaye]

Certainly not cut and dried but there may be some potential for The Greatest Story Ever Told as a biblical epic shot in the US.
It supposedly was attended by people of faith in significant numbers so that may be a source of revenue in one way or another.

I am surprised that George Stevens, Jr., with all his well deserved respect and connections in the industry hasn't done anything about it (because ultimately, all films w few exceptions deserve to be saved etc.) RH can probably weigh in but one thing working against both The Alamo and TGSET is the original 65mm and the sheer length. A restoration/state of the art scanning and other associated costs is at minimum probably at least five times the cost of a standard length 35mm film. That's a lot of money. One of the code words in the business these days before any spending is authorized is the "monetization." Not sure either The Alamo or Greatest Story fit within those parameters. It would be the right thing to do. Media companies don't care about that really. It's about $$$$$$$ most of the time.

 

[OliverK]

I am surprised that George Stevens, Jr., with all his well deserved respect and connections in the industry hasn't done anything about it (because ultimately, all films w few exceptions deserve to be saved etc.) RH can probably weigh in but one thing working against both The Alamo and TGSET is the original 65mm and the sheer length. A restoration/state of the art scanning and other associated costs is at minimum probably at least five times the cost of a standard length 35mm film. That's a lot of money. One of the code words in the business these days before any spending is authorized is the "monetization." Not sure either The Alamo or Greatest Story fit within those parameters. It would be the right thing to do. Media companies don't care about that really. It's about $$$$$$$ most of the time.

I am sure that costs play a big role and the other one is certainly that these movies are usually not considered "cool" for a modern audience which does not help. At the executive level if that was his favorite movie Jeff Bezos or his successor could certainly order TGSET to be restored now that it is with Amazon and I could also see them more open to outside funding.
So MGM not being dirt poor anymore could help but there just doesn't seem to be enough interest by either the rich and famous or by influential people in Hollywood to make it happen at this point in time.

 

[mskaye]

I am sure that costs play a big role and the other one is certainly that these movies are usually not considered "cool" for a modern audience which does not help. At the executive level if that was his favorite movie Jeff Bezos or his successor could certainly order the TGSET to be restored now that it is with Amazon and I could also see them more open to outside funding.
So MGM not being dirt poor anymore could help but there just doesn't seem to be enough interest by either the rich and famous or by influential people in Hollywood to make it happen at this point in time.

They aren't considered "cool" and you have to admit that in most circles they aren't even considered "good." We're not talking Ben-Hur or Lawrence of Arabia here. We're talking "acquired taste" and "cultural anachronism" "too long" and a few other things on top of that.

 

[Robert Harris]

One of the problems with both of these films, is that they were designed to be viewed on huge screens. Therefore viewing on even the largest flat panel, in the wrong aspect ratio does major damage - especially when also viewed via a small gauge mastering element.

The Alamo, because of optics, is one of the highest resolved large format films. Period.

When viewed on a small scale, it is horribly diminished, and those who view it in that manner, have very little concept of the actual film.

Consider a huge painting by as master, as viewed on an iPhone.

 

[OliverK]

One of the problems with both of these films, is that they were designed to be viewed on huge screens. Therefore viewing on even the largest flat panel, in the wrong aspect ratio does major damage - especially when also viewed via a small gauge mastering element.

The Alamo, because of optics, is one of the highest resolved large format films. Period.

When viewed on a small scale, it is horribly diminished, and those who view it in that manner, have very little concept of the actual film.

Consider a huge painting by as master, as viewed on an iPhone.

I have seen TGSET twice and both times on a reasonably large screen in a theater. Like The Alamo it is right up there with the highest resolved titles I have seen. Others would be Fall of the Roman Empire, Ryan's Daughter and Cheyenne Autumn.
I have seen all of them theatrically and they all work a lot better on a big screen.

Between the home video releases of all these movies the Blu-ray of the general release version of The Alamo is the only release that is even starting to convey how good these movies looked which is a rather sad state of affairs.