Upgrading Catfisch Cinema 2024 (2 Viewers)

[DaveF]

I built my theater in 2016.

I upgraded to 4K in 2022.

2024 - 2025 I’m thinking of doing a variety of minor and major upgrades.

I had a home theater consultant out last night, and we spent 90 minutes discussing my theater, my roster of desired tweaks, my longstanding frustrations, and interest in some hardware upgrades. I expect to hear back from him in a few days with some initial pricing and recommendations and we’ll see what to do next.

My wishlist, in rough order of assumed cost:

• Laser Projector (Winter 2024 / 2025)
• Pre-Processor (Anytime?)
• New screen
• Upgrade LCR speakers
• Upgrade in-wall subwoofers
• HomeKit compatible light control
• Improve projector mounting for better vibration isolation
• Improved cable routing from projector to electronics closet

I’ll have more discussion following on these, to come.

 

[John Dirk]

It's great you were able to find someone. Where I live, the major players won't even talk to you unless you're ready to spend $25K or more on a complete buildout or redesign. I've come to be my own "consultant" as a result.

If you're considering JVC for your projector I'd move on that quickly as they're going on and off sale without any pattern I can detect these days.

Are you opening the door for new pre/pro brands or do you think you'll stay with Marantz? I've been very happy overall with my AV10. Unless I saw a killer deal on a Trinnov Altitude 16, I doubt it would be going anywhere.

What are your current LCR's?

I'm starting to scratch the surface of the Homekit world with my Meross garage door controller, which I absolutely love. I'll probably be grabbing a Homepod mini soon since it also serves as a Homekit hub and allows remote control of compatible devices.

Projector mounting is an important consideration, especially if you go with JVC, as their projectors tend to be comparably heavy. Good call on that one.

 

[DaveF]

The guy I’m talking to, let’s call him Adam. He’s a part time consultant and, in my words, ambassador, for a regional home theater company. He likes doing it. And he’s got a balance of making money and doing interesting things that are fun for him that help people improve their home theater.

In my 90 minutes with him, he brought a good mix of honesty, pragmatism, creativity, and willingness to sell me goods and services.

He was blunt that:

• I shouldn’t upgrade to in-wall subwoofers and my in-room SVS subs I added to fix the original in-wall subs were quite good enough. But he would hardware them (I use the RF receivers right now) and felt that was practical to accomplish
• Don’t do the demo work to install in-ceiling conduit, but upgrade my simple DIY cable routing to external conduit. Cost effective, and the aesthetics are in line with what I’m ok with.
• Upgrading the LCR — I have Triad Silver — was a maybe. He thought they sounded good and wasn’t sure about options to upgrade them, since he doesn’t sell Triads. He would like to separate the L and R farther apart but wasn’t sure if that’s doable with the original installation. I’m open to it so will see if he comes back with something.
• He offered to sell me used a very high end, older projector as an upgrade. I don’t think it works for me, but I appreciate the offer.

Overall, while there’s generally wisdom in getting competing quotes on expensive bespoke work, I’m feeling comfortable enough working directly with him and he company he represents so far without reaching out to the other major vendors.

And as @John Dirk notes, I’ve seen in the past they often aren’t interested in smaller jobs that aren’t based on their own hardware solutions.

I’ll start talking through possible upgrades next.

 

[DaveF]

Projector.

I upgraded from a HD Sony 40ES to a used 4K JVC NX7 on Labor Day of 2022. It’s great. But sync times are too long and fan is too loud. And I want it brighter and better tone mapping. I want to upgrade to a laser projector with the next projector cycle. JVC, Sony, and Epson have been on 3 year cycles, announced at CEDIA in the Fall. Presumably there will be updates announced this September. Based on what or nothing happens, I’ll look at buying something. Could be a new NZ7 successor. Maybe I’ll buy a used NZ7 when enthusiasts are selling those off to buy the new gear. If nothing is announced, maybe there are new price drops and I buy a new NZ8.

He offered to sell me a used Sony 1025, a prior gen flagship laser projector. I don’t know anything about it. But my experience and tastes tell me I don’t want it. That said, he might bring it over for a demo, anyway. And I’d be ok with that. I’d love to do a demo with any other 4K projector in my room vs the NX7.

But realistically, the projector is almost certainly a late 2024 / early 2025 purchase — and I was upfront about that.

 

[DaveF]

Processor.

My Marantz 7702mkII is great. But I want to step up the room correction, in hopes it will further enhance everything.

I’m open to anything. He suggested Anthem or a Dirac-based system as the best options. Trinnov is ideal, but outside my price range. This could lead to another Marantz since they have the Dirac upgrade path. I don’t feel strongly about this right now.

Processor upgrade is really more a wishlist item given their cost and that I don’t ”need” one. What I have passes all the 4K just fine.

 

[DaveF]

Projector Screen

I really want a new screen. I have a woven “4K” SI from 2016. The weave is apparent from normal viewing distance for various scene types. The new “4K’ and “8K” weaves are much better. I bought samples and did a comparison and was going to buy a new screen last year. But I got stuck on some pragmatics of installation: my screen wall isn’t quite straight, the screen is slightly bowed, and that needs to be fixed along with a new screen. Then life got busy and I set aside the pursuing the purchase.

So I explained all this and showed him the mechanical quirk. I want some pricing on fixing it along with screen quote.

He sells Seymour. He had samples. I still have my samples from last year. So we compared. The Seymour is much finer weave than the XY Screens 4K and maybe even the 8K. But the DreamWeave sample looks as good or better than the Seymour. And DreamWeave is a bit brighter (higher gain). Seymour likely has better acoustics.

But an XY Screen will be <$1000; it’s a budget brand you buy direct from China. Seymour is a $4000 screen. DreamWeave I have to get a quote on, but it’s not a budget choice I know.

I’m leaning to premium choice now. And after that quick demo, I need to get an email out for pricing on DreamWeave. We’ll see.

 

[DaveF]

Oh right: amidst all this, I’ve been thinking hard about getting out of the projector game and going with a 115” direct view.

Not any more.

After inhaling all the CES news and videos about the new TCL and HiSense sets, and then having a couple weeks to let it fade, I looked again at my room. And they don’t work. There’s no good audio LCR solution for my room with a direct view set.

And I talked about it with Adam. And he agreed. He’s biased, being a projector enthusiast himself and bonafide audiophile (which I am not). And he was flat out: no, don’t do a direct view, projector is your best choice especially for your room.

So, I’m done with that. I’ll stay with projectors and spend the money on upgrades for another cycle.

 

[John Dirk]

Projector.

I upgraded from a HD Sony 40ES to a used 4K JVC NX7 on Labor Day of 2022. It’s great. But sync times are too long and fan is too loud. And I want it brighter and better tone mapping. I want to upgrade to a laser projector with the next projector cycle. JVC, Sony, and Epson have been on 3 year cycles, announced at CEDIA in the Fall. Presumably there will be updates announced this September. Based on what or nothing happens, I’ll look at buying something. Could be a new NZ7 successor. Maybe I’ll buy a used NZ7 when enthusiasts are selling those off to buy the new gear. If nothing is announced, maybe there are new price drops and I buy a new NZ8.

He offered to sell me a used Sony 1025, a prior gen flagship laser projector. I don’t know anything about it. But my experience and tastes tell me I don’t want it. That said, he might bring it over for a demo, anyway. And I’d be ok with that. I’d love to do a demo with any other 4K projector in my room vs the NX7.

But realistically, the projector is almost certainly a late 2024 / early 2025 purchase — and I was upfront about that.

After our fairly recent discussions about panel degradation issues, I can't see you owning another Sony projector. Even though I was assured by a couple of retailers it was a thing of the past and [according to multiple reviewers and shootouts] the new crop of Sony's do have better overall picture accuracy than JVC, I was still not willing to go that route.

 

[John Dirk]

Processor.

My Marantz 7702mkII is great. But I want to step up the room correction, in hopes it will further enhance everything.

I’m open to anything. He suggested Anthem or a Dirac-based system as the best options. Trinnov is ideal, but outside my price range. This could lead to another Marantz since they have the Dirac upgrade path. I don’t feel strongly about this right now.

Processor upgrade is really more a wishlist item given their cost and that I don’t ”need” one. What I have passes all the 4K just fine.

Said it before and I'll say it again, if my AV7702mkII's 12V triggers hadn't failed, I'd probably still be using it. The path to Dirac and access to both Audyssey's Editor app ($20.00) and the $200.00 MultEQ-X are nice, but I haven't actually bothered with either just yet.

 

[JohnRice]

Yeah, I wouldn't get a Marantz with the plan to upgrade to dirac. Just my gut feeling.

 

[DaveF]

I’m doing some reading on the Sony 1025es to determine if it’s worth considering. My bias is away from it. But I want to make an informed decision in case it’s a unicorn opportunity.

Processor: yeah, I‘ve said before I think it’s a weird transitory time for Pre-Pros right now. Prices are high, expected models are still to come, and current models are in seemingly partially finished states with promised software updates. So, I don’t know. The better projector is more important to me. And that reminds me…

 

[DaveF]

Upgrade LCR Speakers

I have Triad Silver for my LCR. They’re good. And having put in the SVS SB subs, it fixed a lot. And Adam commented that he didn’t think I really needed to upgrade my LCR. But still, I’m interested. If I could get the Triad Gold LCR, I’d consider it. I just feel that would be an upgrade I’d appreciate. He doesn’t do Triad, but he’s going to check into it. He also said he has some Perlisten speakers that might be worthwhile and decent fit (with any timbre differences compensatable with room correction hopefully). And I’m ok deviating from Triad for LCR.

The rest of the room isn’t worth trying to upgrade. The surrounds and ceiling are all good enough and the open-heart surgery required would be way too much.

 

[DaveF]

Upgrade LCR Speakers

This is ruled out. Triad Gold speakers new are outside my budget (~$8000 for the trio) and would require significant rework of my front stage since they’re larger than my Silvers.

 

[DaveF]

Projector Screen

Well this has hit a stupid obstacle I wasn’t paying attention to: frame size.

Pricing for a DreamScreen v7 is in my budget. Except it has a 3.5” frame. And I just under 3” on either side of my screen.

Adding insult to injury, I re-checked, and found I’d overlooked that the XY Screens frame size is 3 ⅛”, also too big! So even my value-winner option doesn’t work.

I’ve got pricing for a Seymour Enlightor Neo screen, which is gorgeous. And it has a 1” frame that will fit. But it costs a good deal more than I really wanted to spend. Especially against the comparative value of the DreamScreen.

So, fork me. Don’t know what I’m doing now.

 

[Josh Steinberg]

What about buying just the screen material or borderless design and hiring a carpenter or framer to make the custom frame size/width that you need?

 

[DaveF]

What about buying just the screen material or borderless design and hiring a carpenter or framer to make the custom frame size/width that you need?

I see the appeal and potential benefit of that. But it requires time for researching how to do it and then trying to find someone to hire for a bespoke job and I don’t have the time for that. And around here that could potentially be as expensive as buying a high end manufactured frame.

And as for complete DIY: I just don’t want to to spend the multiple Sundays it would take to do such a thing, and possibly do it to a mediocre outcome.

 

[Josh Steinberg]

I think for better or worse given that very understandable preference, you have two realistic options.

Some screen manufacturers make borderless, tensioned screens. You can buy one of those, and you accept that the screen doesn’t have a frame - which is the direction many commercial theaters are moving in anyway, so it’s no longer a novel idea, it’s basically the IMAX/Dolby Cinema/Premium Large Format aesthetic. Or, you start there, and given that the borderless screen is already tensioned, you only need to make a frame that’s cosmetic rather than functional, so that can be as simple as making a velvet border on the wall around the screen, or covering four pieces of wood with velvet and putting them on the wall.

Or you bite the bullet and buy the more expensive screen with the border that does fit your space, and take some comfort in the idea that a well-made screen, if properly taken care of, will last a very long time and justify the expense in the long run.

I really do get where you’re coming from on this - in my new home where I’m setting up the finished basement as the theater room, everything on the screen wall fit into place with not even an extra inch to spare, and I had to compromise slightly on speaker placement in order to maximize screen size.

 

[DaveF]

I’ve got two practical options:

1) Buy the XY Screens (direct from china screen) with a ½” aluminum frame. I have that kind of frame now. I’ve realized there’s a reason people buy thicker velvet covered frames. This is very affordable and a high quality screen: better than I have now. Some minor risk if there’s a problem that would need warranty support.

2) Buy the Seymour. I think the 122” screen in their 1” frame fits. An excellent screen. American made. Any warranty issues should be no problem. Very expensive.

Will be staring at the ceiling late on night on this one

 

[DaveF]

@John Dirk I know you returned your Anthem AVM 70 as it didn't suit your tastes. But, otherwise, did you look into the differences between the 70 and 90? I'm noodling on the new PrePro and the 70 at $4k is pretty good price compared to Marantz right now. And at a glance it seems everything one needs for a 7.2.4 setup. This isn't a pressing purchase for me.

But I'm trying to think through practical upgrade considerations in the next 12-18 months and how I might purchase them. Maybe even decide what I want and watch for it to have a sale, or a refurb option, or a used can't-pass-it-up price to "impulse" buy from an informed position.

 

[JohnRice]

I'm not the other John, but the AVM 70 is essentially equivalent to the AV8805A, though the Marantz is an older model. I expect a new one is coming eventually. The AVM 90 is more in line with the AV10 John has. I was considering getting an AVM 90, but John's disappointment with the 70's operation changed my mind.