General Discussion 4K UHD streaming whys & wherefors? (1 Viewer)

[Bartman]

I presently have two Roku 3s, an Express and an LG B8 TV. When compared, Blu-ray movie picture quality bests streaming from Netflix or Prime. I'm buying fewer Blu-rays now and don't want to upgrade to 4K UHD discs. So I started investigating 4K UHD streaming, it appears Netflix on the Roku Ultra no longer supports 24fps. Netflix is output at 60fps just like my Roku 3s. The conversion from 24 to 60 involves compromises and 4K streaming will not look as good as the 4K UHD disc. Does any other channel on the Roku Ultra offer 4K UHD at 24fps?
The latest Apple TV player (with tvOS14.5) supports both 24 and 23.976fps so should provide performance equivalent to 4K UHD disc, does anyone have experience with tvOS14.5 and can comment on 4K UHD streaming?
I believe the Nvidia Shield also supports 24fps, can anyone comment on this device when streaming 4K?
Are there any known problems with the LG B8 (HDR etc) when streaming 4K?
My hearing is compromised so I have little interest in Dolby Atmos etc.
Thanks, Trevor.

 

[Worth]

I've found the streaming quality on the Apple TV, on both HD and 4K, to be noticeably better than either the Roku streaming stick or any of the built in apps on my Sony OLED.

 

[ManW_TheUncool]

IF you want good 4K streaming, forget Netflix or Amazon.

Apple/iTunes, Disney+ and Movies Anywhere seem to offer substantially higher bitrates (maybe as high as 2x those of Netflix and Amazon as well as some others like HBO Max, which is probably the worst for 4K both in terms of selection and bitrates/quality). Not sure about Vudu, but it's probably a step below those 3 though it may or may not be quite that visually noticeable. Of course, of these, only Disney+ and AppleTV+ are subscription streaming. Most of us all that serious about streaming quality, especially if we like collecting our own library, prefer to buy digitals (often on sale for $4-5/movie) from (mostly) iTunes and/or Vudu anyway and sometimes use Movies Anywhere to watch them -- and HD digitals bought from iTunes get free upgrade to 4K if 4K eventually becomes available.

_Man_

 

[Bartman]

IF you want good 4K streaming, forget Netflix or Amazon.

Apple/iTunes, Disney+ and Movies Anywhere seem to offer substantially higher bitrates (maybe as high as 2x those of Netflix and Amazon as well as some others like HBO Max, which is probably the worst for 4K both in terms of selection and bitrates/quality). Not sure about Vudu, but it's probably a step below those 3 though it may or may not be quite that visually noticeable. Of course, of these, only Disney+ and AppleTV+ are subscription streaming. Most of us all that serious about streaming quality, especially if we like collecting our own library, prefer to buy digitals (often on sale for $4-5/movie) from (mostly) iTunes and/or Vudu anyway and sometimes use Movies Anywhere to watch them -- and HD digitals bought from iTunes get free upgrade to 4K if 4K eventually becomes available.

_Man_

Thanks for the reply. I'd heard Disney+ was good from a Film Collector YT channel comparison of streaming vs UHD disc.
Just wonderin' are those iTunes upgrades new transfers with HDR/Atmos etc or simply upscaled HD?
Which player do you use? Is it providing native frame rate streaming?

 

[Worth]

Thanks for the reply. I'd heard Disney+ was good from a Film Collector YT channel comparison of streaming vs UHD disc.
Just wonderin' are those iTunes upgrades new transfers with HDR/Atmos etc or simply upscaled HD?
Which player do you use? Is it providing native frame rate streaming?

The iTunes upgrades are new 4K transfers with HDR.

 

[Worth]

IF you want good 4K streaming, forget Netflix or Amazon.

Apple/iTunes, Disney+ and Movies Anywhere seem to offer substantially higher bitrates (maybe as high as 2x those of Netflix and Amazon as well as some others like HBO Max, which is probably the worst for 4K both in terms of selection and bitrates/quality)...

That's true, but even on other streaming services like the Criterion Channel, I notice far fewer compression issues on the Apple TV compared to the other devices I've tried.

 

[Scott Merryfield]

That's true, but even on other streaming services like the Criterion Channel, I notice far fewer compression issues on the Apple TV compared to the other devices I've tried.

I have both an Apple TV 4K and new Roku Ultra with Dolby Vision connected to the main home theater, and I honestly do not notice any difference in picture quality when streaming from the same services -- usually Apple, Disney+, Paramount+, and Vudu. The user interfaces will vary on the apps between the platforms -- sometimes I prefer the ATV4K version, sometimes the Roku version.

I used to have a audio out-of-sync issue with the NHL app on Apple TV but not on Roku. I really don't know if it was fixed on Apple this year, because I always used the Roku for that app when watching hockey.

 

[Bartman]

I have both an Apple TV 4K and new Roku Ultra with Dolby Vision connected to the main home theater, and I honestly do not notice any difference in picture quality when streaming from the same services -- usually Apple, Disney+, Paramount+, and Vudu. The user interfaces will vary on the apps between the platforms -- sometimes I prefer the ATV4K version, sometimes the Roku version.

I used to have a audio out-of-sync issue with the NHL app on Apple TV but not on Roku. I really don't know if it was fixed on Apple this year, because I always used the Roku for that app when watching hockey.

Do you have the Auto-Adjust Display Refresh Rate advanced setting ENABLED on your Ultra to give 24fps playback?

 

[Scott Merryfield]

Do you have the Auto-Adjust Display Refresh Rate advanced setting ENABLED on your Ultra to give 24fps playback?

Yes.

 

[Bartman]

I have both an Apple TV 4K and new Roku Ultra with Dolby Vision connected to the main home theater, and I honestly do not notice any difference in picture quality when streaming from the same services -- usually Apple, Disney+, Paramount+, and Vudu. The user interfaces will vary on the apps between the platforms -- sometimes I prefer the ATV4K version, sometimes the Roku version.

I used to have a audio out-of-sync issue with the NHL app on Apple TV but not on Roku. I really don't know if it was fixed on Apple this year, because I always used the Roku for that app when watching hockey.

So it appears that the Roku Ultra 2020 and Vudu is a good option for 4K UHD streaming.

I assume Vudu has the option of 5.1 audio (DD/DTS) on all 4K titles?

I have never used HDR on my LG B8 TV, does anyone know of problems?

 

[fdabbott]

I've found the streaming quality on the Apple TV, on both HD and 4K, to be noticeably better than either the Roku streaming stick or any of the built in apps on my Sony OLED.

I found all streaming quality to be terrible. Jumps, freezing etc. I have a cable based system with download speed of 600. Every service is junk. I dropped all of them. I buy Blu-rays and DVDs. They can keep their streaming, it just a way for the films companies to keep control of what you watch.

 

[ManW_TheUncool]

I found all streaming quality to be terrible. Jumps, freezing etc. I have a cable based system with download speed of 600. Every service is junk. I dropped all of them. I buy Blu-rays and DVDs. They can keep their streaming, it just a way for the films companies to keep control of what you watch.

Is that 600Kbps or 600Mbps speed?

Can't imagine 600Mbps being a problem like you mentioned unless something else is wrong w/ your setup or maybe your cable company throttling you big time (down below 10-30Mbps perhaps depending on whether you're streaming 1080p or 4K).

IF you really only have 600Kbps speed despite it being cable modem service, then that's definitely the problem -- that's downright awful for cable broadband and probably slower than what most people can get w/ lowly aDSL. You basically need at least ~10Mbps speed to stream good 1080p HD quality all that well (and probably at least 25-60Mbps for 4K depending on the service as some require more bandwidth than others) -- you might get by w/ somewhat less, but it probably won't be too reliable...

_Man_

 

[Scott Merryfield]

The iTunes upgrades are new 4K transfers with HDR.

While most have some form of HDR, that is not universally the case. For example, the original The Omen is in 4K, but does not have any HDR.

 

[Bartman]

I've done more research. Apparently, if I use the streaming app built into my LG B8 TV, I will not suffer the transient blank screen issue due HDMI handshaking during frame rate changes that have been reported on external players.

 

[JohnRice]

I've done more research. Apparently, if I use the streaming app built into my LG B8 TV, I will not suffer the transient blank screen issue due HDMI handshaking during frame rate changes that have been reported on external players.

I've never noticed such a thing with my AppleTV 4K. It definitely happens, with all sources, when switching to any form of HDR. I don't think it's a handshake issue. Just the TV switching into and out of HDR.

 

[ManW_TheUncool]

I've done more research. Apparently, if I use the streaming app built into my LG B8 TV, I will not suffer the transient blank screen issue due HDMI handshaking during frame rate changes that have been reported on external players.

Where/when do you expect frame rate changes other than at the start/end/stop/resume of playback (because the device probably defaults to 60fps for its UI). I haven't noticed any frame rate changes in the middle of playback otherwise, including for temporary pause/continue w/ my few-year-old Roku Premiere Plus.

Yes, if you have HDMI handshake issues, that can be a problem, but it's not likely triggered by frame rate changes in the middle of playback. I do seem to have a related problem playing back at all specifically w/ the AppleTV app on my Roku (when using original frame rate), but it seems isolated to that app alone -- well, it might also be a very sporadic problem for the HBO Max and Movies Anywhere app in my setup, but it's more likely some kind of instability/flakiness w/ a relatively recent Roku software update that was released alongside/for the HBO Max 4K/HDR/Atmos launch a few months ago (and causes some UI flakiness as well for some other apps like Vudu). In any case, once playback starts correctly, I don't experience this latter problem -- playback either works or don't at all.

_Man_

 

[Bartman]

Where/when do you expect frame rate changes other than at the start/end/stop/resume of playback (because the device probably defaults to 60fps for its UI). I haven't noticed any frame rate changes in the middle of playback otherwise, including for temporary pause/continue w/ my few-year-old Roku Premiere Plus.

Yes, if you have HDMI handshake issues, that can be a problem, but it's not likely triggered by frame rate changes in the middle of playback. I do seem to have a related problem playing back at all specifically w/ the AppleTV app on my Roku (when using original frame rate), but it seems isolated to that app alone -- well, it might also be a very sporadic problem for the HBO Max and Movies Anywhere app in my setup, but it's more likely some kind of instability/flakiness w/ a relatively recent Roku software update that was released alongside/for the HBO Max 4K/HDR/Atmos launch a few months ago (and causes some UI flakiness as well for some other apps like Vudu). In any case, once playback starts correctly, I don't experience this latter problem -- playback either works or don't at all.

_Man_

Yes, the frame rate changes only occur during transitions to/from menus, ads etc. Customer complaints were great enough that Netflix then Hulu stopped support of 24fps output (and reverted to 60fps) on the Roku Ultra.

 

[Neil S. Bulk]

Interruptions could be HDMI handshake issues. If you're not using CEC (and I recommended that you don't) be sure to turn off HDMI control on your devices.

 

[Bartman]

How big a loss is lack of Dolby Vision when streaming 4K UHD?

 

[JohnRice]

How big a loss is lack of Dolby Vision when streaming 4K UHD?

If you still have HDR10, not much.