Can a movie be "unsuccessful" and still be effective? (1 Viewer)

[Colin Jacobson]

Star Trek V is definitely something I would put in this sort of category, if I’m interpreting the topic of this thread correctly. It’s just not a well done film and is very flawed. I see and cannot argue with the wide-spread criticism it’s been given for the last 30 years. But I find myself saying “You know, I REALLY like that movie!” whenever I think of it. It still has a LOT going for it that I enjoy and the flaws simply cannot stop my enthusiasm for the rest of it.

I'm with you in the small cult of "Final Frontier" supporters. Yes, the movie comes with major flaws, but it's still interesting and effective to me.

At least it's about actual philosophical ideas, unlike the simplistic crowd-pleasing "Voyage Home"...

 

[JohnRice]

I'm with you in the small cult of "Final Frontier" supporters. Yes, the movie comes with major flaws, but it's still interesting and effective to me.

At least it's about actual philosophical ideas, unlike the simplistic crowd-pleasing "Voyage Home"...

Ah, that’s the “What does God need with a starship” one.

 

[JohnRice]

I agree with many comments here. I much prefer an "ambitious failure, or an "ambitious mess" as I usually call them, to successful mediocrity.

The particular film I'm referring to (The Life Before Her Eyes) crosses pretty far into failure by the end, but I found myself thinking about what it could have been. I have more than one version of what it could have been. It's based on a novel I haven't read, that has pretty spotty feedback. It interests me in the same way as another intriguing failure, Before I Fall, and probably for some similar reasons.

There are flawed movies I absolutely love for their incredible ambition, like The Fountain, and ones I love for less cerebral reasons, because they're just a blast, like The Messenger.

 

[JohnRice]

How about people sell us on some of their flawed favorites. Don’t just list them, sell us on them.

 

[Winston T. Boogie]

I think this is about how we judge a film. Personally, I generally start with "What is the film trying to be?"

So, if it seems to be a drama does it actually get there. Or if it is a comedy, does it make me laugh?

If somebody is making a super hero film is it a good super hero film, one that sets itself apart from all the other ones?

I think the majority of films are flawed. Sometimes the flaws work for the film, sometimes the film overcomes the flaws, sometimes the flaws sink the film.

I will use two Star Wars films as an example here.

The Force Awakens- I think this film is pretty flawed and mainly because they created the film working with a flawed idea for how to continue the series of films and with the idea that they knew all the original actors were senior citizens so they needed to introduce new young characters if they wanted to make lots of money making more Star Wars films. All of that poor planning and bad ideas aside...the film is fun and successful in being a "good Star Wars film" I think. Basically despite the fact that the film sort of is a remake that recycles a lot of stuff in the end I think it is about as good a Star Wars film as you are ever going to get at this point. So, flawed picture with a good end result. It is effective at being a Star Wars film and has the feel of the old Star Wars films.

The Last Jedi- OK, so on this second go round the fact that they really seem out of ideas for these pictures sinks this one. The writers seem lost at sea. The characters feel less like something from Star Wars and more like some sort of parody of Star Wars. So, where the first film could get away with all the recycling, this film can't figure out what the hell it wants to do. It seems as if the dream here was to get Chris Pratt into this and make it a cross between Star Wars visuals and Guardians of the Galaxy comedy. Except, they did not get Chris Pratt, Star Wars is not Guardians of the Galaxy and so this is not really much like a Star Wars film..combine this with atrocious writing and some truly ridiculous moments and...well...total failure that could not overcome the flaws.

 

[JohnRice]

I will use two Star Wars films as an example here.

You seem to watch a lot of movies. How about selling us on some flawed gems that everyone hasn't already seen?

 

[Walter Kittel]

Another film that comes to mind is Anaconda from 1997. I am a big fan of survival stories; combine that with a monstrous animatronic snake and some of the best "scenery chewing" you'll ever get from Jon Voight and that is a formula for success ( at least for me. )

It is goofy as all get out; but I do like the pace of the film, Voight's over the top performance, and the exotic setting of the film. It does a pretty good job of generating tension, and the aforementioned pace of the film sort of keeps you from thinking about the improbabilities of the film in general. Aside from Voight, it has a decent cast with Eric Stoltz, Ice Cube, Jennifer Lopez, and Owen Wilson. It has been awhile since I've seen this, but I recall that the editing was pretty effective in this feature - generating tension and pace.

One of those kind of films that if you accept the premise and let it take you for a ride, it can offer an enjoyable experience.

- Walter.

 

[Colin Jacobson]

Another film that comes to mind is Anaconda from 1997. I am a big fan of survival stories; combine that with a monstrous animatronic snake and some of the best "scenery chewing" you'll ever get from Jon Voight and that is a formula for success ( at least for me. )

It is goofy as all get out; but I do like the pace of the film, Voight's over the top performance, and the exotic setting of the film. It does a pretty good job of generating tension, and the aforementioned pace of the film sort of keeps you from thinking about the improbabilities of the film in general. Aside from Voight, it has a decent cast with Eric Stoltz, Ice Cube, Jennifer Lopez, and Owen Wilson. It has been awhile since I've seen this, but I recall that the editing was pretty effective in this feature - generating tension and pace.

One of those kind of films that if you accept the premise and let it take you for a ride, it can offer an enjoyable experience.

- Walter.

My then-girlfriend saw "Anaconda" opening weekend in 1997. It's the only movie we hated so much we almost walked out on it.

I insisted we stay because I thought it might get better.

It didn't!

 

[Carabimero]

Often box office has nothing to do with how good a movie is. IT'S A WONDERFUL LIFE, for example, flopped at the box office but now is not only widely considered a holiday classic, but one of the greatest movies ever made.

Timing can have a lot to do with box office, sometimes more than the quality of the movie.

 

[JQuintana]

Along the same line.

A Christmas Story was pretty much a flop as well and is a Christmas classic now.

 

[Richard V]

The Keep - Michael Mann's flawed masterpiece, the cinematography, the cast including Sir Ian Mc Kellen, Scott Glenn, Jurgen Prochnow, and one of my favorites Gabriel Byrnne, and ESPECIALLY the Tangerine Dream soundtrack make this one of my favorite Horror/Gothic/anti Nazi features, EVER.

 

[Walter Kittel]

My then-girlfriend saw "Anaconda" opening weekend in 1997. It's the only movie we hated so much we almost walked out on it.

I insisted we stay because I thought it might get better.

It didn't!

Well, you and I always seem to be at odds about our likes and dislikes - and that's okay. I on the other hand loathe Star Trek V and would be quite content if every reel of film associated with that particular title were cut up and used for guitar picks.

- Walter.

 

[Colin Jacobson]

Well, you and I always seem to be at odds about our likes and dislikes - and that's okay. I on the other hand loathe Star Trek V and would be quite content if every reel of film associated with that particular title were cut up and used for guitar picks.

- Walter.

Since I've not seen it in 22 years, I can't give specifics about why I thought "Anaconda" was awful, I'd be curious to see it again after all this time.

But as I recall, it wasn't just bad - it was stupid and bad. I can take flawed with some intelligence involved - ie, "FInal Frontier" - and I can take stupid but fun, but bad and stupid is a terrible combination!

 

[TravisR]

The Last Jedi- OK, so on this second go round the fact that they really seem out of ideas for these pictures sinks this one. The writers seem lost at sea. The characters feel less like something from Star Wars and more like some sort of parody of Star Wars. So, where the first film could get away with all the recycling, this film can't figure out what the hell it wants to do. It seems as if the dream here was to get Chris Pratt into this and make it a cross between Star Wars visuals and Guardians of the Galaxy comedy.

The original Star Wars is funny. It was the sequels and (by necessity) the prequels that drifted away from that. Obviously, what is and isn't funny is determined by each viewer but The Last Jedi is the first movie since the original to really to go for the humor that was in the original picture.

 

[Colin Jacobson]

The original Star Wars is funny. It was the sequels and (by necessity) the prequels that drifted away from that. Obviously, what is and isn't funny is determined by each viewer but The Last Jedi is the first movie since the original to really to go for the humor that was in the original picture.

I don't think "Star Wars" or "Last Jedi" were any more comedic than the rest.

Well, "Sith" was largely devoid of humor, but all the rest seemed about the same in terms of %age of comedy on display.

All have comedic moments but I don't really see a notable difference...

 

[JQuintana]

The "comedy" portion that helped kill my liking of The Last Jedi was the "I'll hold" opening scene. I rolled my eyes and my balloon deflated. It just ruined the whole experience. Not to mention the horrible story and acting.

 

[TravisR]

I don't think "Star Wars" or "Last Jedi" were any more comedic than the rest.

Well, "Sith" was largely devoid of humor, but all the rest seemed about the same in terms of %age of comedy on display.

All have comedic moments but I don't really see a notable difference...

Sure, they all have comedic moments (who can ever forget the comedic genius of the farting eopie in The Phantom Menace? ) but I do think that Star Wars and The Last Jedi have more than the others. Maybe I'm just jaded by Star Wars fans on Twitter who act like The Empire Strikes Back is as "serious" of a movie as Schindler's List or something.

 

[Richard V]

Since I've not seen it in 22 years, I can't give specifics about why I thought "Anaconda" was awful, I'd be curious to see it again after all this time.

But as I recall, it wasn't just bad - it was stupid and bad. I can take flawed with some intelligence involved - ie, "FInal Frontier" - and I can take stupid but fun, but bad and stupid is a terrible combination!

The biggest problem I had with Anaconda was Jon Voigt. His over the top, scenery chewing, moustache twirling, bizzare accent (French/Cajun/New Jersey?), caricature of a villian, was terrible.

 

[Colin Jacobson]

Sure, they all have comedic moments (who can ever forget the comedic genius of the farting eopie in The Phantom Menace? ) but I do think that Star Wars and The Last Jedi have more than the others. Maybe I'm just jaded by Star Wars fans on Twitter who act like The Empire Strikes Back is as "serious" of a movie as Schindler's List or something.

"ESB" is darker than "SW", but it still has plenty of comedy.

I'd bet "ROTJ" has more comedy than "SW" or "Last Jedi".

Maybe the 1st 2 prequels, too.

I really didn't think of "Last Jedi" as overly comedic! I think maybe the fact that so many complained about the comedic bits made it seem more comedic to you. Just as you note the online view of "ESB" as "super serious" affected you, I suspect the fanboy take of "Last Jedi" as a "Porky's" sequel may have impacted you as well!

 

[Scott-S]

I would like to add the entire category of "Video Game Movies". Movies like Doom, Hardcore Henry, Silent Hill etc. seem like they are always a flop (box office and critically), and very seldom appreciated for what they are. Most critics don't get what these types of movies are and seem to prejudge. The three I mentioned were all pretty much flops, but I really enjoyed them as a movie that is evoking my love of the games. Hardcore Henry is not an actual game, but is is definitely in the style of a game. I would add Resident Evil but some might consider these as successful since they made a lot of them.

I am still holding out hope for a Half-Life movie

For reference, Check out this Wiki page. Look at the Rotten Tomatoes scores. LOL
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_films_based_on_video_games

Looking over this list I am in shock at how many attempts there have been to do a Movie based on a video game. I am glad there are enough successes to keep them trying.