Questions about components (1 Viewer)

[egcleo123]

Hello everybody. I'm with a project to build my Home Theater, and I want to know how is better to me. I have a friend who is selling his home theater, and it will cost something like a half what I will spend with the new components, but the problem is his Home have something like 9 years, so I don't know if with the advancing technology the new components are really higher compared with his old components. The project is the follow one:

2x B&W DM 603 S2
2x B&W DM 601 S2
1x B&W DM 600 IFS
1x MARANTZ SR6008
2x Klipsch surround

This speakers and receiver have something like 9 years

And the project what I was thinking to buy NEW are:

4x Klipsch 500m
1x Klipsch 500c
1x Klipsch R-112sw
1x YAMAHA V-585

So, what project is the better option to me? I'll spend R$ (Brazillian cash) 10,000 with the older project, and something like R$ 16,500 with the new project. The newest speakers are really really best compared with speakers of 9 years ago?

 

[ManW_TheUncool]

Hi. Welcome to HTF!

Are those really your only options? I wouldn't wanna go w/ that new set myself -- I'd much rather go w/ something else or save up for better if you must go w/ new.

But if they're really your only options, you'll have to decide for yourself if the few newer tech/features of the Yamaha AVR is really that important to you, eg. support for 4K HDR, (very limited, probably hardly worthwhile implementation of) Atmos and DTS:X, more/newer audio streaming formats (although the old Marantz probably already does enough for you). Meanwhile, you'll likely get somewhat lower sound quality (in general) compared to the Marantz AVR and also lose features like analog pre-outs (and ins too) if you ever want to add better (dedicated) power amp(s) (or better multichannel, outboard audio processing). In practice, the lack of 4K HDR support in the Marantz AVR might be the biggest downside for you, if you plan to get a good 4K HDR display, though you might be able to work around that -- it depends...

Those B&W speakers are quite old models though there's really nothing wrong w/ that in this price range. IF they've been well maintained and not abused, I'd (much) rather have them than the new Klipsch you're considering -- actually, I just wouldn't bother w/ those Klipsch at all. But how do they sound to you since they belonged to your friend and you've probably heard them a fair amount? If they sound awesome to you, then that's what matters most.

At this price range, you should probably consider a brand like ELAC instead if you much prefer to go new. Not sure if you can buy ELAC speakers in Brazil though...

But again, there's nothing wrong w/ old speaker designs or even quite old speakers (assuming they've been well maintained). Heck, I recently spent almost as much on a 20-yo pair of Thiels (yes, just 2 speakers) as you're considering for that entire new set of Yamaha AVR and Klipsch 5.1 -- and I still enjoy a ~30-yo(?) pair of Vandersteen 2Ci's just fine that are probably still much better than those new Klipsch. New can be better, but often isn't at all.

There are plenty of excellent, old gear available at excellent prices out there -- of course, there are also plenty of duds (or too outdated) too whether new or old...

IF the lack of 4K HDR support is a deal breaker, maybe just buy the speakers sans AVR from your friend and use the savings to buy a more recent AVR instead. Not sure how easy it is for you to buy older/discontinued gear, but probably something 3-4 years old (and higher end than that Yamaha) would be good. Maybe a Marantz SR6010 or newer would be good, if you can find one in excellent condition at an attractive price.

You didn't list a subwoofer from your friend's system. Did you just forget?

Cheers!

_Man_

 

[JohnRice]

In my book, the B&Ws will be worlds better than the Klipsch, if they're in good shape. Speakers are often abused, though. I suspect your friend thinks the old receiver is worth more than it is. My choice for the used equipment would be to buy the B&Ws and the receiver if the price is reduced. The Marantz receiver is a much better one than the Yamaha you're considering. It's new price was 3x as much, but it's lacking the new video and audio capabilities.

So I also ask, can you do a combination of the choices? Definitely look beyond Klipsch.

 

[egcleo123]

Hi. Welcome to HTF!

Are those really your only options? I wouldn't wanna go w/ that new set myself -- I'd much rather go w/ something else or save up for better if you must go w/ new.

But if they're really your only options, you'll have to decide for yourself if the few newer tech/features of the Yamaha AVR is really that important to you, eg. support for 4K HDR, (very limited, probably hardly worthwhile implementation of) Atmos and DTS:X, more/newer audio streaming formats (although the old Marantz probably already does enough for you). Meanwhile, you'll likely get somewhat lower sound quality (in general) compared to the Marantz AVR and also lose features like analog pre-outs (and ins too) if you ever want to add better (dedicated) power amp(s) (or better multichannel, outboard audio processing). In practice, the lack of 4K HDR support in the Marantz AVR might be the biggest downside for you, if you plan to get a good 4K HDR display, though you might be able to work around that -- it depends...

Those B&W speakers are quite old models though there's really nothing wrong w/ that in this price range. IF they've been well maintained and not abused, I'd (much) rather have them than the new Klipsch you're considering -- actually, I just wouldn't bother w/ those Klipsch at all. But how do they sound to you since they belonged to your friend and you've probably heard them a fair amount? If they sound awesome to you, then that's what matters most.

At this price range, you should probably consider a brand like ELAC instead if you much prefer to go new. Not sure if you can buy ELAC speakers in Brazil though...

But again, there's nothing wrong w/ old speaker designs or even quite old speakers (assuming they've been well maintained). Heck, I recently spent almost as much on a 20-yo pair of Thiels (yes, just 2 speakers) as you're considering for that entire new set of Yamaha AVR and Klipsch 5.1 -- and I still enjoy a ~30-yo(?) pair of Vandersteen 2Ci's just fine that are probably still much better than those new Klipsch. New can be better, but often isn't at all.

There are plenty of excellent, old gear available at excellent prices out there -- of course, there are also plenty of duds (or too outdated) too whether new or old...

IF the lack of 4K HDR support is a deal breaker, maybe just buy the speakers sans AVR from your friend and use the savings to buy a more recent AVR instead. Not sure how easy it is for you to buy older/discontinued gear, but probably something 3-4 years old (and higher end than that Yamaha) would be good. Maybe a Marantz SR6010 or newer would be good, if you can find one in excellent condition at an attractive price.

You didn't list a subwoofer from your friend's system. Did you just forget?

Cheers!

_Man_

Thank you very much for the answers. It really was of great importance. Regarding considering other new brands, Brazil is really very limited in this regard, except that everything is extremely expensive. A new basic 4K marantz is costing something like R $ 12,000.00, that means 12 minimum wages. It is really difficult to have a home theater here, very few people have it, so there are not many people selling more outdated and newer models than the marantz 6008.

With this in mind, between keeping this marantz 6008 and buying the yamaha, for example, is it better to keep the marantz? Does it have better sound quality? What about the lack of support in 4K, how does it affect my experience? I'm new to this audio visual, so I don't know. Will my TV, which is 4K, not be able to read movies in 4K with marantz?

 

[egcleo123]

And do you have some AVR to recommend to me? I can buy it on Paraguay, and there is more options. Some AVR with a $ 1,000 max.

 

[egcleo123]

In my book, the B&Ws will be worlds better than the Klipsch, if they're in good shape. Speakers are often abused, though. I suspect your friend thinks the old receiver is worth more than it is. My choice for the used equipment would be to buy the B&Ws and the receiver if the price is reduced. The Marantz receiver is a much better one than the Yamaha you're considering. It's new price was 3x as much, but it's lacking the new video and audio capabilities.

So I also ask, can you do a combination of the choices? Definitely look beyond Klipsch.

Thanks for the answer. I'm going to choose B&W, really. Unfortunately, the price for Brazil is even cheap. The components here are really very expensive.

However, I can shop in Paraguay, which uses the dollar, and things are generally cheaper there. Would you have a project in mind better than B&W and marantz and that would cost me the amount I will pay in the kit? (something around $ 1700.00)

 

[egcleo123]

Hi. Welcome to HTF!

Are those really your only options? I wouldn't wanna go w/ that new set myself -- I'd much rather go w/ something else or save up for better if you must go w/ new.

But if they're really your only options, you'll have to decide for yourself if the few newer tech/features of the Yamaha AVR is really that important to you, eg. support for 4K HDR, (very limited, probably hardly worthwhile implementation of) Atmos and DTS:X, more/newer audio streaming formats (although the old Marantz probably already does enough for you). Meanwhile, you'll likely get somewhat lower sound quality (in general) compared to the Marantz AVR and also lose features like analog pre-outs (and ins too) if you ever want to add better (dedicated) power amp(s) (or better multichannel, outboard audio processing). In practice, the lack of 4K HDR support in the Marantz AVR might be the biggest downside for you, if you plan to get a good 4K HDR display, though you might be able to work around that -- it depends...

Those B&W speakers are quite old models though there's really nothing wrong w/ that in this price range. IF they've been well maintained and not abused, I'd (much) rather have them than the new Klipsch you're considering -- actually, I just wouldn't bother w/ those Klipsch at all. But how do they sound to you since they belonged to your friend and you've probably heard them a fair amount? If they sound awesome to you, then that's what matters most.

At this price range, you should probably consider a brand like ELAC instead if you much prefer to go new. Not sure if you can buy ELAC speakers in Brazil though...

But again, there's nothing wrong w/ old speaker designs or even quite old speakers (assuming they've been well maintained). Heck, I recently spent almost as much on a 20-yo pair of Thiels (yes, just 2 speakers) as you're considering for that entire new set of Yamaha AVR and Klipsch 5.1 -- and I still enjoy a ~30-yo(?) pair of Vandersteen 2Ci's just fine that are probably still much better than those new Klipsch. New can be better, but often isn't at all.

There are plenty of excellent, old gear available at excellent prices out there -- of course, there are also plenty of duds (or too outdated) too whether new or old...

IF the lack of 4K HDR support is a deal breaker, maybe just buy the speakers sans AVR from your friend and use the savings to buy a more recent AVR instead. Not sure how easy it is for you to buy older/discontinued gear, but probably something 3-4 years old (and higher end than that Yamaha) would be good. Maybe a Marantz SR6010 or newer would be good, if you can find one in excellent condition at an attractive price.

You didn't list a subwoofer from your friend's system. Did you just forget?

Cheers!

_Man_

And about the subwoofer, he didn't mencioned nothing about it. So, I believe he uses The 603 S2 for basses. I'll need to upgrade it, yes?

 

[ManW_TheUncool]

Hard to recommend anything w/out knowing what's available and at what prices.

What 4K TV do you have? And how long do you expect to use it as your main display w/ this HT setup? Knowing those details might help determine if it's worthwhile to stick w/ the Marantz 6008 vs going w/ a newer AVR for 4K (and maybe some of the other features).

How much would it cost to get a more recent Marantz of similar quality (probably model number 601X)?

And how much would it cost to buy just the speakers w/out AVR from your friend?

And about the subwoofer, he didn't mencioned nothing about it. So, I believe he uses The 603 S2 for basses. I'll need to upgrade it, yes?

If he's not including a subwoofer, you could probably get by for a while w/out one until you save up for a good one. A good new sub that probably matches fairly well w/ those B&W speakers can probably be had for anywhere from $700-1K or so here in the USA, but no idea what's available where you are.

Looks like SVS is officially available in Paraguay (but not Brazil), and would probably make a good choice, maybe something like a SB-2000 Pro (costs $800 here) or PB-2000 Pro (costs $900 here) if they (eventually) have them...

SVS International Speaker & Subwoofer Dealers | Home Theater

SVS Subwoofers & Speakers are available online for sale through our website or by phone as well by select retail and online partners worldwide.

www.svsound.com

Subwoofer | HTSA Tentaciones

www.tentaciones.com.py

At the moment, that dealer seems to only carry both lower and higher SVS models, but not the 2000 series. Maybe the 2000 Pro line is still too new for that Paraguay dealer while the old non-Pro 2000 models may be sold out... OR maybe you could just spring for either SB-3000 ($930) or PB-3000 (nearly $1.3K) from that dealer instead...

HTSA - TENTACIONES

www.tentaciones.com.py

HTSA - TENTACIONES

www.tentaciones.com.py

IF you go w/ your friend's offer, you'd probably save enough to buy a SVS PB-2000 Pro (whenever that becomes available) or SB-3000 (or maybe also come fairly close for the PB-3000) from that dealer in Paraguay. But do note these subs are quite bulky (at least w/ the packaging) and hefty (at nearly-80lb-packaged for the PB-2000 Pro and heftier for the PB-3000), and I have no idea how you'd bring one home.

I see that dealer also carries a Marantz SR6014 (for $1.15K), but not much else for AVRs...

_Man_

 

[egcleo123]

Hard to recommend anything w/out knowing what's available and at what prices.

What 4K TV do you have? And how long do you expect to use it as your main display w/ this HT setup? Knowing those details might help determine if it's worthwhile to stick w/ the Marantz 6008 vs going w/ a newer AVR for 4K (and maybe some of the other features).

How much would it cost to get a more recent Marantz of similar quality (probably model number 601X)?

And how much would it cost to buy just the speakers w/out AVR from your friend?



If he's not including a subwoofer, you could probably get by for a while w/out one until you save up for a good one. A good new sub that probably matches fairly well w/ those B&W speakers can probably be had for anywhere from $700-1K or so here in the USA, but no idea what's available where you are.

Looks like SVS is officially available in Paraguay (but not Brazil), and would probably make a good choice, maybe something like a SB-2000 Pro (costs $800 here) or PB-2000 Pro (costs $900 here) if they (eventually) have them...

SVS International Speaker & Subwoofer Dealers | Home Theater

SVS Subwoofers & Speakers are available online for sale through our website or by phone as well by select retail and online partners worldwide.

www.svsound.com

Subwoofer | HTSA Tentaciones

www.tentaciones.com.py

At the moment, that dealer seems to only carry both lower and higher SVS models, but not the 2000 series. Maybe the 2000 Pro line is still too new for that Paraguay dealer while the old non-Pro 2000 models may be sold out... OR maybe you could just spring for either SB-3000 ($930) or PB-3000 (nearly $1.3K) from that dealer instead...

HTSA - TENTACIONES

www.tentaciones.com.py

HTSA - TENTACIONES

www.tentaciones.com.py

IF you go w/ your friend's offer, you'd probably save enough to buy a SVS PB-2000 Pro (whenever that becomes available) or SB-3000 (or maybe also come fairly close for the PB-3000) from that dealer in Paraguay. But do note these subs are quite bulky (at least w/ the packaging) and hefty (at nearly-80lb-packaged for the PB-2000 Pro and heftier for the PB-3000), and I have no idea how you'd bring one home.

I see that dealer also carries a Marantz SR6014 (for $1.15K), but not much else for AVRs...

_Man_

I have a LG OLED 55" 4K. I intend to stay with it for a long period of time. I saw on a website that the value of a Marantz 6011 is $ 987.00 (something like R $ 5800.00) I would be able to buy this new receiver soon.

Regarding the amount he would make the kit without the AVR, it was not specified. But I believe it would drop from R $ 10,000 to something like R $ 7,000. But IDK if he sell it without AVR.

My friend selled his subwoofer, so I will need to buy a new one anyway. I'll see this SVS subs to make a good choice.

 

[egcleo123]

Considering a new Marantz 6011 is almost R$ 6,000, and the price what I would probably pay for the Marantz 6008 is R$ 3,000, pays off I stay with the older one?

What I will lost if I don't have the 4K support?

 

[ManW_TheUncool]

Considering a new Marantz 6011 is almost R$ 6,000, and the price what I would probably pay for the Marantz 6008 is R$ 3,000, pays off I stay with the older one?

What I will lost if I don't have the 4K support?

The main thing you'll lose if using that AVR to switch video inputs is HDR (and Dolby Vision) for greater dynamic range (and probably also greater color fidelity) from a good 4K HDR source -- not all claimed 4K content will actually have that level of quality though, especially old movies and shows. But that probably means losing most of the benefit of your OLED display (vs other display types).

And you'll be settling for 1080p resolution, which is probably just fine for a 55" display -- you probably can't see more than 1080p on such a display size anyway unless you sit unusually close to it (like 7ft or less)... and probably need to be more like <=5ft away to see most of the 4K res.

But you might be able to work around that by using the AVR to only handle audio for your system, not to switch video for the TV. It'd be more clunky, but might work well enough for you in part depending on your video sources. For instance, many good BD and 4K disc players provide dual HDMI outputs so you can feed the video directly to the display and audio separately to the AVR. But most dedicated streaming devices (like Roku and AppleTV) don't seem to offer that, so that's trickier -- I guess you could try an HDMI splitter, but not sure how well that'd work for you. Same might be true for cable/sat STBs, if you use cable/sat service.

There are various dedicated 4K HDMI splitters and switchers on the market for various prices under $100 (and some over), but I don't know that any of them works perfectly for 4K HDR. I tried this one from Cable Matters, but found it somehow causes banding for 4K HDR video (mainly in light blue skies and off-white walls) for my setup -- I tried 2 units w/ same results:

See on Amazon


Ideally, this could solve the problem, but the banding issue was a deal breaker. I ended up just upgrading my prepro to handle 4K HDR (and Atmos and DTS:X audio) sooner instead (of trying other switchers)...

_Man_

 

[egcleo123]

The main thing you'll lose if using that AVR to switch video inputs is HDR (and Dolby Vision) for greater dynamic range (and probably also greater color fidelity) from a good 4K HDR source -- not all claimed 4K content will actually have that level of quality though, especially old movies and shows. But that probably means losing most of the benefit of your OLED display (vs other display types).

And you'll be settling for 1080p resolution, which is probably just fine for a 55" display -- you probably can't see more than 1080p on such a display size anyway unless you sit unusually close to it (like 7ft or less)... and probably need to be more like <=5ft away to see most of the 4K res.

But you might be able to work around that by using the AVR to only handle audio for your system, not to switch video for the TV. It'd be more clunky, but might work well enough for you in part depending on your video sources. For instance, many good BD and 4K disc players provide dual HDMI outputs so you can feed the video directly to the display and audio separately to the AVR. But most dedicated streaming devices (like Roku and AppleTV) don't seem to offer that, so that's trickier -- I guess you could try an HDMI splitter, but not sure how well that'd work for you. Same might be true for cable/sat STBs, if you use cable/sat service.

There are various dedicated 4K HDMI splitters and switchers on the market for various prices under $100 (and some over), but I don't know that any of them works perfectly for 4K HDR. I tried this one from Cable Matters, but found it somehow causes banding for 4K HDR video (mainly in light blue skies and off-white walls) for my setup -- I tried 2 units w/ same results:

See on Amazon


Ideally, this could solve the problem, but the banding issue was a deal breaker. I ended up just upgrading my prepro to handle 4K HDR (and Atmos and DTS:X audio) sooner instead (of trying other switchers)...

_Man_

Aaaah, now I think I get it. The question of 4K HDR in a reveiver is important if the media I'm going to watch is external, i.e. whether it's coming from a DVD or blu-ray, or something like that, is that it? In my case, I only watch by netflix or Amazon prime. So I won't have any loss in this ite?

About dolby vision, is this an important point in immersion? Does a receiver without dolby vision have less immersion than one with dolby vision? I'm already thinking about buying without the receiver, and looking for a newer one. But I still have doubts as to whether this marantz 6008 will fit me or not.

 

[JohnRice]

About dolby vision, is this an important point in immersion? Does a receiver without dolby vision have less immersion than one with dolby vision? I'm already thinking about buying without the receiver, and looking for a newer one. But I still have doubts as to whether this marantz 6008 will fit me or not.

A receiver that can't pass DV generally won't have the immersive audio formats like Atmos either. There may be exceptions, but the two generally arrived at the same time.

If you have a 4K display, you probably want a 4K/DV compatible receiver, but as you said, if your sources are entirely apps in the TV it's a lot less important.

 

[ManW_TheUncool]

Aaaah, now I think I get it. The question of 4K HDR in a reveiver is important if the media I'm going to watch is external, i.e. whether it's coming from a DVD or blu-ray, or something like that, is that it? In my case, I only watch by netflix or Amazon prime. So I won't have any loss in this ite?

About dolby vision, is this an important point in immersion? Does a receiver without dolby vision have less immersion than one with dolby vision? I'm already thinking about buying without the receiver, and looking for a newer one. But I still have doubts as to whether this marantz 6008 will fit me or not.

Dolby Vision is essentially just an enhanced version of HDR.

And most good BD and 4K disc players seem to come w/ dual HDMI outputs, so that should bypass the issue, if you don't mind having to run the extra separate HDMI connection (along w/ switching at both the TV and the AVR).

IF you're pretty sure you won't get any other source devices that only offers single HDMI output (for streaming, etc), then that Marantz SR6008 sounds like a good way to go if you also don't plan/expect to expand your sound system for Atmos/DTS:X sound (w/ ceiling/height channels) for the foreseeable future. And of course, if you do change your mind someday (unforeseen) on that, there may be viable workarounds for that like HDMI splitters and switchers to try -- or maybe even trying something like ARC perhaps.

Since this is probably your first foray into HT and doing in-ceiling speakers (along w/ the added expenses) may not be viable for you (anytime soon), IMHO, you should be very happy w/out Atmos/DTS:X (at least for a long while), so I wouldn't worry about that if I were you. Save that as something to consider years on down the line instead -- maybe your friend (or someone else) will want to upgrade again or something by then, and you could buy his next AVR for much less at that point...

Meanwhile, you should be able to afford a good subwoofer (like the SVS ones at that Paraguay dealer) to go w/ that system from the savings buying from your friend...

Just make sure everything in your friend's system is indeed in excellent condition (and he offers some kind of guarantee perhaps). He may even help you more quickly set everything up for optimal performance since it was his for a long while...

_Man_

 

[egcleo123]

Dolby Vision is essentially just an enhanced version of HDR.

And most good BD and 4K disc players seem to come w/ dual HDMI outputs, so that should bypass the issue, if you don't mind having to run the extra separate HDMI connection (along w/ switching at both the TV and the AVR).

IF you're pretty sure you won't get any other source devices that only offers single HDMI output (for streaming, etc), then that Marantz SR6008 sounds like a good way to go if you also don't plan/expect to expand your sound system for Atmos/DTS:X sound (w/ ceiling/height channels) for the foreseeable future. And of course, if you do change your mind someday (unforeseen) on that, there may be viable workarounds for that like HDMI splitters and switchers to try -- or maybe even trying something like ARC perhaps.

Since this is probably your first foray into HT and doing in-ceiling speakers (along w/ the added expenses) may not be viable for you (anytime soon), IMHO, you should be very happy w/out Atmos/DTS:X (at least for a long while), so I wouldn't worry about that if I were you. Save that as something to consider years on down the line instead -- maybe your friend (or someone else) will want to upgrade again or something by then, and you could buy his next AVR for much less at that point...

Meanwhile, you should be able to afford a good subwoofer (like the SVS ones at that Paraguay dealer) to go w/ that system from the savings buying from your friend...

Just make sure everything in your friend's system is indeed in excellent condition (and he offers some kind of guarantee perhaps). He may even help you more quickly set everything up for optimal performance since it was his for a long while...

_Man_

I just have to thank you so much for all the support and help you gave me. It was really of great importance