WWDC 2011 Live Discussion Thread 6/6/11 (1 Viewer)

[mattCR]

The way Apple is figuring it is different. They are contending "all mobile devices". This includes all iPod Touch. They also consider the fragments of Android as different OS's. In this configuration, they make up 44% of the marketspace.


I'm not saying that's valid or invalid, it's a way to look at the data. And they rightfully can include the iPod Touch (and iPad) despite the fact that Comscore is only looking at shipping, activated phones.


It's just a different way to look at the numbers.

Sam: Yes, keeping your Dev is worth it. The two best values of any in the marketplace are these: Microsoft's MAPS and Apple's DEV.

 

[Ted Todorov]

Clearly, unlike Nielsen, Comscore decided not to pretend that the iPad and iPod Touch don't exist.

Keep in mind who the WWDC audience is -- developers. Do you thing they care if their apps get purchased by iPod Touch owners instead of iPhone owners? For developers Nielsen's wrong-headed statistics are meaningless.

 

[KeithAP]

Those other statistics clearly indicate "smartphone" market share whereas Apple was calling iOS a "mobile operating system" so they could include all iOS devices (iPad/iPod Touch). Although from that standpoint, couldn't OS X, and all flavors of Windows for that matter, be considered mobile operating systems? After all, they are available on notebooks. If you add those devices, which would have to be separate catagories, then how do the percentages fall? Classic Apple spin.


On another topic, iTunes Match....


I have yet to see a clear explanation on what happens if you stop paying the annual iTunes Match fee. Does the previously matched music disappear or does that music stay in the cloud and behave like iTunes music? I have seen a lot of talk speculating that you would loose access to music that was "matched" but I can't find anything official that says that. Inquiring minds want to know.


-Keith

 

[mattCR]

Originally Posted by Keith Plucker Classic Apple spin.


On another topic, iTunes Match....


I have yet to see a clear explanation on what happens if you stop paying the annual iTunes Match fee. Does the previously matched music disappear or does that music stay in the cloud and behave like iTunes music? I have seen a lot of talk speculating that you would loose access to music that was "matched" but I can't find anything official that says that. Inquiring minds want to know.


-Keith

The way Apple figures the numbers is... interesting. They count in the iPod Touch and iPad - which as Ted points out is a valid way to do it. But they discount all Windows tablets, netbooks, etc. Which OK, let's let that pass. They discount all Linux mobility (Archos and numerous others), they fracture Android.. they don't count unlicensed device types (China)... but let's give them all that and just say "won't matter" or "Doesn't count" .. but it's hard to say 44% of the Mobile Devices market so you can count in iPod Touch/Ipad... but exclude say.. Nintendo (298 Million Units sold) or Sony (76 Million units sold).

This isn't saying that their sales aren't fantastic - they are. But the only way you say 44% - even to developers - is by coloring in a big way what the marketspace really is. You define it on your terms and you figure it out.

As to iTunes Match: yeah, not sure what happens after a year. I have a lot of mixed feelings. I opened up iTunes and saw the figure on "iTunes Plus" and thought.. if this could save me that money...


On the OTHER hand, I have a ton of MP3s I've purchased through Amazon, some I've ripped myself, and some MP3s that come from CDs I no longer have (not sold or anything, we had a house fire years ago, and I lost a lot then, but thankfully pulled them back from my then Creative Zen that was in my car). I have some sickening feeling about letting anything "scan my hard drives" and check against legit copies. Ugh, I will admit, I have bootlegs of concerts I attended years ago - (wow, the days where I'd take a Mini-DAT recorder into a show to record.. ah.. kids don't know how we had it!) and hell, I don't know if I want anyone scanning that stuff.


Match is .. intriguing. And maybe it's totally irrational fear, but I generally squick about letting outside parties scan my HDD and see what "matches" anywhere. Just let me tell you what I have

 

[DaveF]

(Tapa / HTF weren't talking this morning, so my post took a round trip through several programs to get here. Hopefully it survived )


My wife was watching the Apple.com videos on Lion, which brought some features I'm interested in.

Time-Machine integration into apps. A journaling type system for file recovery. This won't be a big deal for my personal use, but I like it a lot.

AirShare. We push files back and forth by the Public Folder and it's ok. But it diesnt allow for quickly sending a link or note. It seems silly to email a computer on the desk five feet from mine, but that's the only way. AirShare promises an easier, consistent way to send bits to each other.

Not mentioned, but I'm assuming there will be a desktop iMessage. If I can switch my family to iMessage, I can cut my SMS bill.

$29 to upgrade both macs to Lion? I'm tempted solely on price. (Adobe willing). And in four years and three OS X's, I've not needed a reinstall. This isn't Win98 where I need to clean house every year so it keeps working. For me, downloadable OS should be fine; it can download overnight, an 8 hr dl pessimistically at 1Mbps. And should run closer to 10 Mbps, for a 40 min dl. The real downside is I can't sell it used in two years.

 

[DaveF]

iTunes Match: What's the data usage for streaming music? If this is compressed like my music on my Mac's harddrive (and iPhone), it's about 40MB per album (or hour), so about 5 albums /hours on my 200MB data plan. Even on a 2GB plan, that's only 50 albums (50 hrs) of music, less than 2 hours a day. This seems like a system designed to cost a for all but the minority grandfathered into unlimited data plans.


If data were cheap / unlimited, I'd be quite interested (though maybe no $25/yr interested?). But against costly data plans, I don't understand who this system is for? What's the use case?

 

[Craig S]

Originally Posted by Michael_K_Sr :

Install on all authorized computers When you purchase Lion from the Mac App Store, you can install it on all your authorized Mac computers. Just sign in to the Mac App Store from each Mac and download Lion from the Purchases list.

That reads to me like (1) Apple ID logon needed for each computer, (2) re-download done for each computer.

 

[Craig S]

Originally Posted by Ronald Epstein on Apple's site. It answers a lot of questions.

 

[DaveF]

A question from my wife, that I've not had time to sort out: Does the new iCloud system do away with Home Sharing of purchased apps?


There was some language in describing the new iCloud purchasing system that made it sound like that might vanish.

 

[Ted Todorov]

??? I don't understand the question. If you are worried about sharing the same iTunes account/Apps between you and your wife's devices, any such worry is misguided. Indeed even the $29 Lion will be installable on multiple Macs. The only limit I've seen is up to 10 devices for iCloud. When you and your wife have 11 or more devices running Lion/iOS 5 or better you can start complaining...

 

[ArchMike]

The big difference is that if you're home sharing, it means it's stored on your local network. The question is, is Apple going to move all of this stuff to the cloud, so that you don't have local copies of say, the Apps you've purchased. Because while it's cool that it would allow for synching over the air, it would be a major pain in the ass for people with slow internet connections and lots of apps.

Originally Posted by Ted Todorov

??? I don't understand the question. If you are worried about sharing the same iTunes account/Apps between you and your wife's devices, any such worry is misguided. Indeed even the $29 Lion will be installable on multiple Macs. The only limit I've seen is up to 10 devices for iCloud. When you and your wife have 11 or more devices running Lion/iOS 5 or better you can start complaining...

 

[Ted Todorov]

Where are you guys getting this stuff? There is absolutely no indication that Apple will suddenly kill local synching, be it via cable or the newly enshrined WiFi. The remote iCloud is a new option, not a requirement. Look, you are getting 5GB of iCloud space. Current iPad/iPod Touch capacity is 64GB. How is that going to be backed up? What about video, currently not supported by iCloud (yeah, they are negotiating with the studios, but...)? Local synching will be with us for a long, long time.


Heck, there are even heavy rumors that the next generation of Time Capsules will run iOS and provide local synching so you don't need to run a computer 24/7 (or at all).

 

[Ted Todorov]

From GigaOm:

Wi-Fi sync Apple showed off how its iOS devices will be able to go PC-free when iOS 5 arrives, but if you still want to grab your music and movies from iTunes, you can do so over a local Wi-Fi network from your Mac or PC instead of having to plug your device in. Apple does say “it automatically syncs and backs up any new content to iTunes” every time “you connect your iOS device to a power source,” but it isn’t clear if that’s a requirement.

 

[DaveF]

Originally Posted by Ted Todorov

Where are you guys getting this stuff? There is absolutely no indication that Apple will suddenly kill local synching, be it via cable or the newly enshrined WiFi. The remote iCloud is a new option, not a requirement. Look, you are getting 5GB of iCloud space. Current iPad/iPod Touch capacity is 64GB. How is that going to be backed up? What about video, currently not supported by iCloud (yeah, they are negotiating with the studios, but...)? Local synching will be with us for a long, long time.


Heck, there are even heavy rumors that the next generation of Time Capsules will run iOS and provide local synching so you don't need to run a computer 24/7 (or at all).

I'll ask my wife when I get home tonight. She was reading about the iCloud system, with its revised method for tracking purchased iOS apps, and something about the wording made it sound like everything is online only, and might no support work with HomeSharing.
Since I'm getting looks here like I'm a lunatic, I'll take that to mean everyone expects Home Sharing to work like it always has with iOS5.

 

[DaveF]

That aside....I'm very excited about iCloud syncing. I really hope this is avaiilable for all third-party apps. Presently, syncing is worse than on my 2002 Sony Clie (Palm OS). I have to plug my iPhone in, then additionally launch and sync three more apps; one of which requires the desktop version to be launched and logged-in. Poor system.


I really want automatic syncing of all apps; wirelessly would be icing on the cake.


This also means that the apps I have that use custom online sync services need to support iCloud. If they stick with their odd-duck third-party system, I'll be replacing them with apps that are iCloud savvy.



And boy do I hope that SplashID is able to integrate iCloud into its iOS and OS X apps! That would be great!

 

[Ronald Epstein]

And boy do I hope that SplashID is able to integrate iCloud into its iOS and OS X apps

Dave,


I am aware of that program. It's very good.


I use 1Password, however, as it works for both securing

passwords and other private information as well as retaining

webpage logins as well.


The way that software works across devices is via

Dropbox. 1Password automatically syncs to dropbox

and then as long as your iPhone, iPad, iPod Touch or

Mac has Dropbox as well, that information is pushed to

the software on that device.


I imagine that with iCloud that will be the same method

in which 1Password (and hopefully) SplashID works.

 

[Sam Posten]

Anyone who still uses tech like 1Password in a post PSN hack world deserves whatever trouble they get down the line IMO.

 

[Ronald Epstein]

Stay upbeat, Sam!

 

[Will_B]

Originally Posted by Ted Todorov

Where are you guys getting this stuff? There is absolutely no indication that Apple will suddenly kill local synching, be it via cable or the newly enshrined WiFi. The remote iCloud is a new option, not a requirement.

For now, yes. But they'd hardly announce an end to local synching in a press event, would they? They'd just quietly disable it.


I want to stick with iTunes. But I am worried now that they have a financial incentive to have folks pay Steve $25 to do it.


I am also sad that their hyping of 256kbps as "good" likely means that iTunes won't be upgrading to Apple Lossless any time soon. And I rip all my CDs into Apple Lossless, and I only buy downloads which are lossless. But even 320kbps would have been better than 256kbps. It makes a real difference depending on what kind of music you listen to. Electronica with female vocals needs 320, to my ears. But I just play it safe and stick with lossless.

 

[Ronald Epstein]

Will,


If I must download music I won't do so unless

it is at least 320kbps, though I usually get lucky

with 360kbps. That's the best I can do with

downloaded music. Lower bitrates than that I

can hear the "shrill" and distortion within the highs.