A Few Words About A few words about...™ The Conformist -- in Blu-ray (1 Viewer)

[Robert Harris]

I've received a few private messages requesting that I explain the problem further. Let me be very clear. Raro's Conformist is a disc that has very distinct problems.From my perspective, everything that has occurred after the initial scans that do not affect the actual scans themselves, has been handled superbly.I love the look of this release. Color, densities, grain structure, black levels, shadow detail, have all been handled beautifully.The problem is that someone, possibly in QC, allowed a very problematic scan to make it to the final stages of mastering.An image can be digitally stabilized, handling what might have been moderate problems of image movement within the frame. But there are other, more problematic, and very distinct and identifiable problems. These can also be handled to make basically transparent. This was never done.Two major problems, which generally appear in scans that are not performed on pin-registered mechanisms, are created by more than normally thick splices between shots, and timing notches, which during printing, tell the printer to modify the color timing to change color from shot to shot.Both of these anomalies, which are normal to printing negatives, need to be handled by using a pin-registered scanner, re-scanning problem areas registered,for problem areas, or working with more finite frame stabilization programs, or in extreme cases, fixing or re-creating individual frames to create a continuous and transparent flow of images from frame to frame.These problems occur with regularity when scanning original (or dupe) negatives, and in virtually every case, where the subject is of importance, they are massaged in one way or another.This is the most basic function of Quality Control -- confirming that a motion picture flows smoothly, without bouncing from side to side, usually for 2 - 3 frames. In more problematic situations, as a timing notch passes through a scanner, the frame will literally move from side to side, and in movement the image within that (those) frames is bent in different directions, changing the image on the frame into a wonderful "S" shape.Viewers should never see these problems, as they're all part of not only normal QC, but of the job of the individual doing the scanning to keep an eye open for any problems that might be occurring.To have these problems appear in The Conformist, is basically "Amateur Hour."A pity, really.RAH

 

[david hare]

This really needs a concerted push by people to support/encourage Raro to withdraw the BD, and send the master back to the authoring house, demanding a rescan with all the final adjustments for frame stabilization put in place to allow them to produce a fully corrected master and the fine 1080p this could obviously be.This just seems absurdly basic.

 

[Powell&Pressburger]

This disc just sounds embarrassing.

 

[Michel_Hafner]

Tell me all about it..... Fixing unstable (jumping, warping, jittering... ) transfers scanned the wrong way can be hell...

 

[Peter Neski]

doesn't seem far to Bertollucci legacy that home video has been almost bargain basement dealing with this films Criterion has only two titles and one
is the wrong aspect ratio (not that it was their fault ) The way these Beautiful films looked in the theatre is becoming a lost Memory

This is his best film,and one of the Best films of the 70's and not from some tiny studio

 

[Tama]

I had read Raro was using a brand new restoration for this title

 

[Brandon Conway]

I thought that the Italian master they ended up using was supposed to be stunning?

If I'm reading RH's comments correctly, the picture quality (grain structure, colors, etc.) is fine, but other issues (frame jitter, image stretching) are the problem.

 

[Robert Harris]

If I'm reading RH's comments correctly, the picture quality (grain structure, colors, etc.) is fine, but other issues (frame jitter, image stretching) are the problem.

Correct. Should not be referenced as a "restoration." Rather like lipstick on a pig.

RAH

 

[Brandon Conway]

Makes me wonder if this is inherent in the Cineteca di Bologna's restoration efforts. Has their efforts been released on another Blu-ray in another country to compare to? Surely Raro wasn't scanning film elements themselves, so their video source had to have come from somewhere else, no?

 

[Garringo]

Makes me wonder if this is inherent in the Cineteca di Bologna's restoration efforts. Has their efforts been released on another Blu-ray in another country to compare to? Surely Raro wasn't scanning film elements themselves, so their video source had to have come from somewhere else, no?

Raro released the restoration on Blu in Italy in 2011. Unfortunately they filtered it so badly that I don't recommend anyone to get it.

The restoration was also released in Japan in 2012 and it looks great. But only Italian and Japanese audio/subtitle options.

I own both and can't remember seeing any problems (the kind reported on this new US Blu) on either of those discs. Is it just me, could it be possible to miss this type of problem? (though I have never seen anyone who owns either disc to report any problem of this kind)

 

[david hare]

For all of Cineteca Bologna's substantial reputation in the Restoration and preservation community their track record is not always flawless. Their initial handling of elements and sources for their restoration of Rossellini's Journey to Italy comes to mind (I will only discuss this privately as I am not supposed to let this information out.) Suffice to say BFI had to in effect rescue the harvest with their own English language, English titled 35mm master interpositive to ensure a new English language version -in fact the primary version, as the Italian dub was made only for Italian consumption. But enough said about that.So, if the Italian Raro is good, and has no stabilization issue, how is it that Raro USA - apparently -"reintroduces" frame jitter into what was a purportedly good master?There is surely an intermediary process going on here, almost certainly not from Raro, nor I imagine from Ritrovata, which has FUBARed the encode. But by whom?

 

[bugsy-pal]

Or are these problems highlighted by Mr Harris also present in the other bluray releases, including the Arrow? Perhaps those of us without the technical experience of Mr Harris have overlooked these issues on previous bluray releases based on the same master...

 

[willyfan]

My name is William Fanelli and I am responsible for the authoring of this bluary (and many others bluray well known also in this forum like "il buono, il brutto e il cattivo" - "the good, the bad and the ugly" Ed. Mondo HE)

I’d like to clarify certain matters because too many posts have called into question the competence of the authorer of this title. And unfortunately, this shows a rather superficial and inaccurate approach.

Our company, like the vast majority of the companies involved in DVD and Bluray authoring, usually does not deal with the restoration of the films it produces.

Sometimes it can happen it also deals with restoration, but in this case the master we received was already restored and we were informed of not making any type of treatment (like denoise, for example).

Moreover, the film was restored by the Immagine Ritrovata Company - Cineteca di Bologna (Bologna Film Library), which is well-known for the quality of its restoration works, not by a Mr. Nobody with his Mac in a basement. And the film restoration was carried out under the supervision of Storaro.

The Bluray was created from the same master used for making a DCP that was screened everywhere in the world.

In addition, our quality control did not detect critical defects that could affect the release of the film.

From what I read on this topic, it seems to me that our friend Robert Harris was the only one who has really seen the Bluray. All the other posts, very critical to say the least, are based only on this first post.

I’d like to invite those wanting to write on this topic to do two things:

1) to check facts before the workflow of a production of this kind: blaming the authoring company can cause totally unjustified damage, considering that, as Harris himself says, "Everything that has occurred after the initial scans that do not affect the actual scan themselves, has been handled superbly"; and this also includes the compression performed at our headquarters, which is the only manipulation of the master we made.

2) to see the product with their own eyes. Personally, I think that the defects greatly magnified by the friendly prose of Robert Harris are really irrelevant to the vision and fruition of this work; and even if it wasn’t, I believe at least that those writing in the forum should see with their own eyes and not with someone else’s eyes.

 

[Garringo]

Ok, I checked the Japanese disc looking for the kind of problem described and if I understood it correctly(?) it might be there..

Almost every time the shot changes (for example near the end in the forest when it keeps changing between the view of the cars from the forest to the faces of the actors) it looks like the frames shift ~1mm or something to one direction or another then maybe even a bit more and then back again (this whole thing might take even 6 frames or more) and yes there seems to be some sort of distortion happening as well. It is clearly there if I go frame by frame (helps when I can put my mouse cursor at certain spot and see how the things around it move) and now I notice it even in motion.

I never saw it before and I'm not sure if I ever had had I not read about it here and went looking for it. So thanks a lot for ruining it for me.


As for the Arrow disc, can't say about this particular problem but the quality otherwise looked like upscaled SD to my eyes when compared to the Japanese disc.

 

[Robert Harris]

My name is William Fanelli and I am responsible for the authoring of this bluary (and many others bluray well known also in this forum like "il buono, il brutto e il cattivo" - "the good, the bad and the ugly" Ed. Mondo HE)

I’d like to clarify certain matters because too many posts have called into question the competence of the authorer of this title. And unfortunately, this shows a rather superficial and inaccurate approach.

Our company, like the vast majority of the companies involved in DVD and Bluray authoring, usually does not deal with the restoration of the films it produces.

Sometimes it can happen it also deals with restoration, but in this case the master we received was already restored and we were informed of not making any type of treatment (like denoise, for example).

Moreover, the film was restored by the Immagine Ritrovata Company - Cineteca di Bologna (Bologna Film Library), which is well-known for the quality of its restoration works, not by a Mr. Nobody with his Mac in a basement. And the film restoration was carried out under the supervision of Storaro.

The Bluray was created from the same master used for making a DCP that was screened everywhere in the world.

In addition, our quality control did not detect critical defects that could affect the release of the film.

From what I read on this topic, it seems to me that our friend Robert Harris was the only one who has really seen the Bluray. All the other posts, very critical to say the least, are based only on this first post.

I’d like to invite those wanting to write on this topic to do two things:

1) to check facts before the workflow of a production of this kind: blaming the authoring company can cause totally unjustified damage, considering that, as Harris himself says, "Everything that has occurred after the initial scans that do not affect the actual scan themselves, has been handled superbly"; and this also includes the compression performed at our headquarters, which is the only manipulation of the master we made.

2) to see the product with their own eyes. Personally, I think that the defects greatly magnified by the friendly prose of Robert Harris are really irrelevant to the vision and fruition of this work; and even if it wasn’t, I believe at least that those writing in the forum should see with their own eyes and not with someone else’s eyes.

Mr. Fanelli,

With all due respect...

First, and possibly most important to you, this is NOT an authoring problem. It is NOT a compression problem.
The company for which you work is in the clear. This is a beautifully authored disc. Can I be any more clear?

The problems are with the scans, and how those problems were handled post-scan.

Had I been in QC at the facility, I would have kicked these scans back before any additional work
was performed, and additional fixes would have occurred.

It could not be more Simple.

This is NOT a quality restoration.

Period.

RAH

 

[Robert Harris]

Ok, I checked the Japanese disc looking for the kind of problem described and if I understood it correctly(?) it might be there..

Almost every time the shot changes (for example near the end in the forest when it keeps changing between the view of the cars from the forest to the faces of the actors) it looks like the frames shift ~1mm or something to one direction or another then maybe even a bit more and then back again (this whole thing might take even 6 frames or more) and yes there seems to be some sort of distortion happening as well. It is clearly there if I go frame by frame (helps when I can put my mouse cursor at certain spot and see how the things around it move) and now I notice it even in motion.

I never saw it before and I'm not sure if I ever had had I not read about it here and went looking for it. So thanks a lot for ruining it for me.


As for the Arrow disc, can't say about this particular problem but the quality otherwise looked like upscaled SD to my eyes when compared to the Japanese disc.

You're seeing uncorrected splice bumps and timing notches.

You should not. They should be transparent.

Welcome to the forum!!

RAH

 

[Robert Harris]

Or are these problems highlighted by Mr Harris also present in the other bluray releases, including the Arrow? Perhaps those of us without the technical experience of Mr Harris have overlooked these issues on previous bluray releases based on the same master...

The Arrow is derived from an ancient transfer, and irrelevant to these proceedings.

RAH

 

[Alan Tully]

Well I haven't seen the disc, but it does seem amazing that a fault like kicks from timing notches can pass through the system. Even if they're digitally corrected, you're going to see something, & once you've noticed, no matter how small they are you're going to be looking for them in every scene change. If this is the fault, then the scan should have been re-done before all the other expensive restoration took place. Maybe it is a small problem, but I'd notice it. I remember having problems with movement from timing notches about 15 years ago when I was transferring some films from the original cut negatives.Oh, & apart from side to side kicks from notches (I think they stopped using notches in the early seventies), there's the more up to date, up & down kick from the neg cutter using a mis-aligned film cement joiner, I used to see a bit of that, even in the cinema, but I was probably the only one in there that noticed!

 

[Robert Harris]

Well I haven't seen the disc, but it does seem amazing that a fault like kicks from timing notches can pass through the system. Even if they're digitally corrected, you're going to see something, & once you've noticed, no matter how small they are you're going to be looking for them in every scene change. If this is the fault, then the scan should have been re-done before all the other expensive restoration took place. Maybe it is a small problem, but I'd notice it. I remember having problems with movement from timing notches about 15 years ago when I was transferring some films from the original cut negatives.Oh, & apart from side to side kicks from notches (I think they stopped using notches in the early seventies), there's the more up to date, up & down kick from the neg cutter using a mis-aligned film cement joiner, I used to see a bit of that, even in the cinema, but I was probably the only one in there that noticed!

As orig negs would wear, and perfs would deteriorate, they would be run from tail to head, with notches on both sides. On occasion, single frames need to be totally rebuilt. All of this is correctable to transparency.The interesting thing is, that the eye will seldom see problems in the first frame of a shot, but get in five or six...

 

[Angelo Colombus]

I guess we can wait for "take two" on another release of The Conformist when they get the scan right.