Disney+ Echo (Marvel Cinematic Universe) (1 Viewer)

[Joe Wong]

Saw the first 3 episodes.

Not bad! Ep 1 does a nice job of introducing and recapping for those who came in cold or barely remember Hawkeye.

Spoiler

I thought the bit at the skating rink, where Maya is held in the room while her captors wait for Fisk’s men to arrive, a little odd - she breaks free of her cuffs, but doesn’t try too hard at escaping… I think she even locks the door herself. Or maybe it just shows the incompetence of her captors.

 

[Adam Lenhardt]

I went into this with basement low expectations, because of the behind the scenes rumors that it was a complete disaster and because Disney+ seemed to be burning it off in an early January dump.

But I really enjoyed the first episode. It did a nice job of quickly establishing Maya's two worlds in New York City and on the rez in Oklahoma. And I like how the show is leaning into Maya as an anti-hero. The events of "Hawkeye" didn't suddenly redeem her or wash away her sins. She's quite unlikable at times in the first episode.

And I really loved the opening scenes at Maya's grandparents house on the rez. Between the Oklahoma setting and tone and the presence of Graham Greene and Zahn McClarnon, it gave me warm and fuzzy "Reservation Dogs" vibes.

I heard about Echo for the first time two weeks ago when I saw the trailer on YouTube. I was excited when it looked like an unexpected throwback to Netflix’s Daredevil shows, with Fisk as a strong supporting character.

But then I learned it’s more MCU continuity and I need to have done the homework and watched Hawkeye (which I missed) and maybe also The Marvels (which I missed).

So, I don’t know. I’ll wait to hear more about Echo to decide if I can watch it or if my MCU narrative debt is too high and I need to skip this one too.

Tonally and stylistically it's much closer to "Daredevil" and the other Netflix Marvel shows than anything in the MCU.

The first half-hour of the first episode is structured by much like Superman: The Movie, taking Maya from a small child to an adult with superhuman abilities. While the focus of that half-hour isn't the events from "Hawkeye", it does revisit the beats from that miniseries that are crucial to Maya's journey. So you can hop into this without seeing "Hawkeye" and not feel like you're missing anything essential.

And for what it's worth, Charlie Cox is billed as a series regular, so I don't think Kingpin is going to be the only character back from "Daredevil".

 

[Adam Lenhardt]

Watched the second and third episodes tonight. Saving the last two for tomorrow:

Spoiler: 1x02 & 1x03

I'm really fascinated by this idea of genetic memory, with skills and traits from one generation being passed down to the generations that follow, and each episode opening with a cold open to a different generation who did something extraordinary. The first episode with the first Choctaw woman, the second episode with the competition at Moundville at the height of the Mississippian period, and the third episode with the Lighthorsemen in the 19th century.

Sydney Freeland grew up in the Navajo Nation, and Catriona McKenzie is an Aboriginal Australian filmmaker, so both directors so far can claim to be native, albeit not Choctaw like Maya. At the same time, getting every historical detail right is probably less important here since the MCU is an alternate history.

I really like the writing and performance for Henry Lopez. He's a criminal, but he's a smart criminal who knows his wrong and aims to keep his community from getting caught up in Fisk's criminal empire any more than it already is. And then Maya comes in like a wrecking ball, ignores his warnings and pleas, and puts everyone in danger.

Graham Greene's performance as Maya and Bonnie (and Biscuits?)'s grandfather is my favorite so far. He knows what's going on with everybody, and he just tries to be helpful and let the people he cares about know that they're loved. He lost his daughter to his son-in-law's criminal life, he lost his granddaughter to his wife's inability to forgive her son-in-law, and he lost his wife to all of it. And yet he's calm and steady and funny and kind. I loved his whole routine selling to the white couple, with the Indian chant being something to the effect of "buymyshit, buymyshit, buymyshit."

My one concern at this point is that this show seems to have the same problem as the other 5-hour MCU miniseries: Three great episodes of slow build-up, but then the conclusion is sure to be rushed.

I thought the bit at the skating rink, where Maya is held in the room while her captors wait for Fisk’s men to arrive, a little odd - she breaks free of her cuffs, but doesn’t try too hard at escaping… I think she even locks the door herself. Or maybe it just shows the incompetence of her captors.

My sense is that she was playing the bait in order to lure Fisk's men to her home turf. And Vickie and his gals were too incompetent to know who they were dealing with, on either end of their transaction. She only revealed her hand once she discovered that Bonnie was in harm's way too.

 

[NeilO]

Glad to see some good reactions so far. I don't know when I'll have the time to check it out, but I am looking forward to it.

 

[DaveF]

I might watch this traveling next week. Seems like a good option for a tedious airplane ride.

 

[Jeff Cooper]

Watched the first 2 episodes last night and will watch the final 3 tonight. I really enjoyed it, it's an excellent grounded thriller. I'm not familiar with the comics, but the only thing that really took me out of it so far are the

Spoiler

spiritual/supernatural

elements. Those seem so tonally different from the rest of the show, it's almost bizarre when they show up. I haven't seen the last three episodes yet, so maybe there is a better resolution to those. During the first 5 minutes of the first episode

Spoiler

I almost had to check to see if I had accidentally picked some other show that 'Echo'

 

[TonyD]

I can’t say I hated this show but I can say I was totally unaffected by it. Like it doesn’t even exist.
As far as DD. Blink and you kissed him.
I’m struggling to remember anything else about this show except for Kingpin and the stinger after the last episode. I guess he’s going to run for mayor of Marvel tv universe?

 

[Joe Wong]

Finished the series tonight.

Overall, OK, some interesting themes, but I was expecting (hoping for?) more action. The final action scene was cool but way too short.

Would have liked to seen more Graham Greene - his acting is effortless here.

Spoiler

I was a little confused about the motivations of both Maya and Fisk. Fisk was ready to let Maya kill him, but then later he tries to kill her because she doesn’t join him?

And Maya wants to kill Fisk… but now can’t do it?

 

[Jeff Cooper]

OK, someone needs to explain to me how after we've seen her multiple times effortlessly take out trained squads of goons with guns, somehow three local dweebs manage to keep getting the best of her.

 

[AlexF]

OK, someone needs to explain to me how after we've seen her multiple times effortlessly take out trained squads of goons with guns, somehow three local dweebs manage to keep getting the best of her.

Chloroform.

 

[AlexF]

Overall, I enjoyed the series -- I liked how it was more about the characters than the big massive fight scenes. Like @Adam Lenhardt , I was concerned that they were doing things like some of the other MCU series and forcing things to be tied up too quickly, but episode four had so much character development in it, that's when I fully realized how the series was playing out. The show isn't about the fights and conflict between Echo/Maya and Kingpin... it's about reconnecting with her family, her culture, and her heritage.

Once I figured that out, I was perfectly content with the way that the final episode played out and enjoyed the show overall.

I will be honest, I still don't totally understand Kingpin's motivations, goals, or end game, but I came away from the show with a much better appreciation for the character of Echo and the Choctaw culture (through the MCU lens obviously). And the first credit with the thanking the Choctaw nation for all of their contributions and collaboration on the show was really nice to see.

 

[Sam Favate]

Watched the first episode and loved it. It’s got that grounded tone from the Netflix Daredevil series, and that’s been missing in the MCU. Having an actress like Cox lead the show can’t be easy. She’s not going to do exposition or have a soliloquy, but she’s very effective. And D’Onofrio is just a gem. He immediately gives the series menace, danger and tragedy. Fisk is the role he was made for.

I’m going to watch the remaining episodes more or less daily. I don’t want to rush through.

I don’t understand why Marvel didn’t hype this more. It’s a new avenue for the MCU. It deserves more attention.

 

[Adam Lenhardt]

Finished the season tonight, and while it was too short overall it's one of my favorites of the Disney+ MCU series. It's all rooted in character, and it benefited from not being burdened with holding up any major part of the Phase 4 (Phase 5?) scaffolding. It told a complete story with a beginning, middle, and end.

As far as DD. Blink and you kissed him.
I’m struggling to remember anything else about this show except for Kingpin and the stinger after the last episode. I guess he’s going to run for mayor of Marvel tv universe?

Yes, Charlie Cox being credited as a series regular in the first episode was a misnomer since he never shows up again. I was just as glad, though, that they only used him when it made sense to use him. I do think the mid-credit scene is setting up a plot point for the upcoming "Daredevil; Born Again".

The glimpses we get into Kingpin's past also bring major elements from the character's backstory in the Netflix "Daredevil" series into the MCU canon.

Overall, OK, some interesting themes, but I was expecting (hoping for?) more action. The final action scene was cool but way too short.

For me, that was one of the best parts. I'm bored of these movies and shows devolving into a major visual effects-laden action set piece. Everything we got in this final confrontation was character-driven, and Maya's choices build upon the journey she's gone on over these five episodes.

Would have liked to seen more Graham Greene - his acting is effortless here.

He's phenomenal in this. I leaned in a little closer every time his character is on the screen. Particularly loved the scenes between him and Tantoo Cardinal. They really sell the history between them, their love for one another, why they got together, and why they split up.

Spoiler

I was a little confused about the motivations of both Maya and Fisk. Fisk was ready to let Maya kill him, but then later he tries to kill her because she doesn’t join him?

And Maya wants to kill Fisk… but now can’t do it?

Spoiler: 1x04 & 1x05

Fisk wanted to bring things to a head, and force her to decide one way or the other. It's an open question whether he would have actually let her bash his brains in, or if the hammer was just a ploy to end her homicidal rage toward him.

Maya's been on the knife's edge between the light and the dark the entire episode, and I don't think it would have taken a lot to nudge her into killing him. The fact that she didn't in the hotel room speaks to how far she'd already come by that point. But I don't know that she fully commits to a different path until her conversation with her mother in her grandmother's sewing room.

Speaking of Maya's mother: Katarina Ziervogel was pretty phenomenal too. Finding two indigenous Deaf actresses had to take some out of the box thinking on the casting side, and they hit it out of the park with both Alaqua Cox and Ziervogel, neither of whom had any IMDB acting credits before Marvel. I do think being Deaf provides certain advantages for screen acting, because Deaf people are already so well-versed in using body language and facial expressions to communicate thoughts, feelings, and ideas.

Like @Adam Lenhardt , I was concerned that they were doing things like some of the other MCU series and forcing things to be tied up too quickly, but episode four had so much character development in it, that's when I fully realized how the series was playing out. The show isn't about the fights and conflict between Echo/Maya and Kingpin... it's about reconnecting with her family, her culture, and her heritage.

I definitely agree, but I also think the beats in the final two episodes would have landed harder if this had been a 13-episode season and we'd spent more time marinating in this world, and Maya's reconnection with her family had been more gradual. From what I understand, it was originally meant to be eight episodes and was reshaped into five episodes during reshoots. There's definitely no fat here, but you do feel that streamlining a bit too much at times.

But I definitely felt like this told a complete story, and if there isn't a second season, it works well as a self-contained miniseries.

I will be honest, I still don't totally understand Kingpin's motivations, goals, or end game, but I came away from the show with a much better appreciation for the character of Echo and the Choctaw culture (through the MCU lens obviously). And the first credit with the thanking the Choctaw nation for all of their contributions and collaboration on the show was really nice to see.

I do think it suffered a bit from being shot in Georgia in and around Atlanta. "Reservation Dogs" was set in Oklahoma and shot in Oklahoma, and there's a much stronger sense of place than in this. Tahama, Oklahoma is a real place within the traditional territory of the Choctaw nation, but I felt like the show's Tahama could have been any small rural community in the American South.

But I did like the duality between Kingpin and Maya, and how they were alike and how they were different. The biggest difference being that Maya had a community around her, and Kingpin didn't.

Watched the first episode and loved it. It’s got that grounded tone from the Netflix Daredevil series, and that’s been missing in the MCU. Having an actress like Cox lead the show can’t be easy. She’s not going to do exposition or have a soliloquy, but she’s very effective.

The interesting thing about having a Deaf protagonist is that it takes away a number of television writers' usual crutches. Long scenes of exposition via subtitled ASL would be unbearable. So they have to be a lot more efficient with what she says, and have her journey be conveyed primarily in ways other than dialog.

I also think Maya being taciturn works for the character, much like Clint Eastwood's Man with No Name. Her silence carries weight, and she can say a lot with one look.

And D’Onofrio is just a gem. He immediately gives the series menace, danger and tragedy. Fisk is the role he was made for.

I thought Michael Clarke Duncan was great if unconventional casting for the character in the Fox Daredevil, but D'Onofrio definitely fits the role like a glove. It's right up there with Christopher Reeve as Superman and RDJ as Iron Man for miraculously great casting.

 

[DaveF]

I watched the first episode of Echo. Not sure I’ll continue. It’s everything I was afraid it would be: a premiere that assumes I’ve kept up with the past three years of MCU, and burdens me with too much narrative debt to care about the character or her story since I haven’t.

 

[Sam Favate]

Episode 3 for me tonight, and wow, what a fight scene. This was worthy of the Netflix Daredevil show. Really digging the show.

 

[Adam Lenhardt]

I watched the first episode of Echo. Not sure I’ll continue. It’s everything I was afraid it would be: a premiere that assumes I’ve kept up with the past three years of MCU, and burdens me with too much narrative debt to care about the character or her story since I haven’t.

I can understand not liking the premiere; the first half being essentially an extended montage telling decades of a person's life isn't going to be to everybody's taste.

But I don't understand the criticism that it assumes that you've kept up with the past three years of the MCU. Literally everything you need to know is in the episode. The only part of the wider MCU that really plays into it is Clint Barton's time as the Ronin between Infinity War and Endgame, because he killed Maya's father and so played a crucial part in her backstory. But other than that, there's really no ties to the wider MCU aside from Kingpin. And the portrayal of Kingpin leans far more heavily on what was established in "Daredevil" than what was established in "Hawkeye".

 

[DaveF]

I can understand not liking the premiere; the first half being essentially an extended montage telling decades of a person's life isn't going to be to everybody's taste.

But I don't understand the criticism that it assumes that you've kept up with the past three years of the MCU. Literally everything you need to know is in the episode. The only part of the wider MCU that really plays into it is Clint Barton's time as the Ronin between Infinity War and Endgame, because he killed Maya's father and so played a crucial part in her backstory. But other than that, there's really no ties to the wider MCU aside from Kingpin. And the portrayal of Kingpin leans far more heavily on what was established in "Daredevil" than what was established in "Hawkeye".

Echo’s first episode implicitly assumes I’ve watched the prior show(s), and already understand and am invested in her situation, and just need a refresher. But I have no connection to this character. And that frenetic first episode just smashed a bunch of plot points into 50 minutes and eliminated everything that would normally draw me into a show.

I started Echo ready to enjoy it. Downloaded the season to watch while traveling this week. I’ve got a plane flight back on Friday so maybe I’ll try E2 then.

 

[Robert Crawford]

I thought they did a fine job with the recapping in the first episode.

 

[Jeff Cooper]

Echo’s first episode implicitly assumes I’ve watched the prior show(s), and already understand and am invested in her situation, and just need a refresher.

Actually, I think you are the one making that assumption, not the show. The only place Echo has ever appeared in the MCU prior to this, is the show Hawkeye, and she was just a side character in that show, not the main focus.

I can understand that if you haven't seen Hawkeye, you may think that she has this huge build up in that or many other shows you haven't seen that you have missed out on. But that isn't really the case. The first episode pretty much told you everything you need to know about her from Hawkeye, so you aren't missing out on anything at all by only watching this show.

Totally understand if the show just isn't for you, but I can assure you it's not because you "haven't been doing your homework".

 

[TonyD]

I have watched every second of the MCU.
The recap didn’t bother me. I thought it was a good recap.
Then there was the DD appearance and a few things in the first episode that was interesting. After that I don’t care for 95% of it.
Kingpins actions don’t make a lot of sense to me.
He wanted to get Echo back in then he called her family then he tried to have her killed.

Echo already shot him in the face once to kill kingpin then had the chance to do it again and didn’t.

Whole thing was just a big fat nothing show for me.
That’s all I need to say so I’m glad people liked it. Marvel needs more of that.