Press Release BVHE Press Release: Avatar: The Way of Water (4k UHD) (3D Blu-ray) (Blu-ray) and Avatar (4k UHD) (Blu-ray) (1 Viewer)

[Bryan^H]

Why didn't they just put this out as a 4K/3D combo and save on creating two SKUs and a pile of extra plastic waste in the form of two separate covers?

Like Josh said, most likely less interest in 3D format as time marches on.
Come to think of it the 4K disc market isn't impressing any of the big studios. Count this one as a miracle. Or a director with a ton of clout!

 

[Edwin-S]

Actually, I changed my mind. Separate releases probably is the way to go, since the the 3D blu-ray is the only one that requires a purchase. This film is going to be on Disney+ in UHD continually.to watch. No need to purchase, unlike the 3D version.

 

[Edwin-S]

Like Josh said, most likely less interest in 3D format as time marches on.
Come to think of it the 4K disc market isn't impressing any of the big studios. Count this one as a miracle. Or a director with a ton of clout!

It would have been released on 4K UHD regardless. It is the 3D release that demonstrates the director's clout since, as you noted, 3D blu-ray is a niche and a format that Disney helped kill a long time ago.

 

[Bryan^H]

Hmm. 4K is doing better than I thought.
Who buys DVD in this day, and age lol!!

 

[Josh Steinberg]

Who buys DVD in this day, and age lol!!

The majority of remaining disc buyers.

For a brief moment in history circa 2000-2004, the relative inexpensiveness of DVD relative to VHS combined with its widespread availability made it oftentimes cheaper and more convenient to purchase a disc than it had been to rent a tape. It temporarily crossed from a niche to mainstream market. But over time, the majority of these new buyers found that they did not watch their purchases as much as expected nor did they want extra stuff piling up in their homes.

As HDTV replaced standard definition, and streaming became available, the mainstream market moved away from disc purchases towards streaming for its inexpensive offerings, relatively high quality and ease of use.

Blu-ray debuted amidst a physical media format war that consumers weren’t interested in participating in, and right at the precipice of an economic crash that negatively affected the buying power of a generation.

When the dust settled, the upgrade path for most mainstream users was trading standard definition TVs and DVDs for high definition TVs and streaming.

That left the disc buying market with two different but completely opposite set of niche buyers: technical enthusiasts who sought a higher quality perceived to be only available on disc, and technical luddites (to put it bluntly) that were uncomfortable with or incapable of streaming. This group includes the some of the elderly, for whom learning a new technology was too difficult or something they just weren’t interested in; lower-income people for whom upgrades were out of reach financially; and institutions like libraries and colleges, who were not going to dump perfectly serviceable collections and existing equipment in favor of increasingly niche products.

As the quality of internet access and streaming has increased in the past decade, it has crossed a threshold among many of the holdout enthusiasts into a level of quality and offerings that at last met their needs. They, too, also discovered they didn’t watch their physical media purchases as much as expected and didn’t need to possess physical objects for everything they watched.

In short: after DVD, most people moved onto streaming, not Blu-ray. The people who remained loyal to discs were largely those uninterested in or incapable of using streaming or Blu-ray.

At this point, if DVD were to be eliminated entirely, the majority of those customers would move to streaming, not another disc based format.

As enthusiasts participating on an enthusiast forum, we’re a niche of a niche. We sometimes miss that this has long been happening around us. Brick and mortar stores didn’t abandon physical media out of some conspiracy that the studios wanted to take away discs; they abandoned it because mainstream customers stopped buying it, and real estate is too expensive for mainstream stores to support non-mainstream interests.

The increased output you see amongst boutique labels isn’t because discs are selling like hotcakes. It’s the opposite. Because discs barely sell now compared to twenty years ago, studios no longer charge high licensing fees, and boutique labels are in a mad dash to get out as much product as possible before what’s left of the physical media marketplace implodes. Warner and Universal combined their home video operations because neither on their own was making enough money to justify continuing at it alone; in their filings for the establishment of their joint endeavor, they estimated physical media had maybe ten years of life left in it, and that was about five years ago. Sony no longer presses discs domestically where they once used to be a major player in that space, and is starting to shutter overseas operations. Criterion has laid off staff. Kino reports that sales numbers decline year after year. It’s not over, yet, but discs will never again reach the marketplace dominance they once had, and that is because the mainstream consumer is no longer interested in them.

 

[Ronald Epstein]

The majority of remaining disc buyers.

For a brief moment in history circa 2000-2004, the relative inexpensiveness of DVD relative to VHS combined with its widespread availability made it oftentimes cheaper and more convenient to purchase a disc than it had been to rent a tape. It temporarily crossed from a niche to mainstream market. But over time, the majority of these new buyers found that they did not watch their purchases as much as expected nor did they want extra stuff piling up in their homes.

As HDTV replaced standard definition, and streaming became available, the mainstream market moved away from disc purchases towards streaming for its inexpensive offerings, relatively high quality and ease of use.

Blu-ray debuted amidst a physical media format war that consumers weren’t interested in participating in, and right at the precipice of an economic crash that negatively affected the buying power of a generation.

When the dust settled, the upgrade path for most mainstream users was trading standard definition TVs and DVDs for high definition TVs and streaming.

That left the disc buying market with two different but completely opposite set of niche buyers: technical enthusiasts who sought a higher quality perceived to be only available on disc, and technical luddites (to put it bluntly) that were uncomfortable with or incapable of streaming. This group includes the some of the elderly, for whom learning a new technology was too difficult or something they just weren’t interested in; lower-income people for whom upgrades were out of reach financially; and institutions like libraries and colleges, who were not going to dump perfectly serviceable collections and existing equipment in favor of increasingly niche products.

As the quality of internet access and streaming has increased in the past decade, it has crossed a threshold among many of the holdout enthusiasts into a level of quality and offerings that at last met their needs. They, too, also discovered they didn’t watch their physical media purchases as much as expected and didn’t need to possess physical objects for everything they watched.

In short: after DVD, most people moved onto streaming, not Blu-ray. The people who remained loyal to discs were largely those uninterested in or incapable of using streaming or Blu-ray.

At this point, if DVD were to be eliminated entirely, the majority of those customers would move to streaming, not another disc based format.

As enthusiasts participating on an enthusiast forum, we’re a niche of a niche. We sometimes miss that this has long been happening around us. Brick and mortar stores didn’t abandon physical media out of some conspiracy that the studios wanted to take away discs; they abandoned it because mainstream customers stopped buying it, and real estate is too expensive for mainstream stores to support non-mainstream interests.

The increased output you see amongst boutique labels isn’t because discs are selling like hotcakes. It’s the opposite. Because discs barely sell now compared to twenty years ago, studios no longer charge high licensing fees, and boutique labels are in a mad dash to get out as much product as possible before what’s left of the physical media marketplace implodes. Warner and Universal combined their home video operations because neither on their own was making enough money to justify continuing at it alone; in their filings for the establishment of their joint endeavor, they estimated physical media had maybe ten years of life left in it, and that was about five years ago. Sony no longer presses discs domestically where they once used to be a major player in that space, and is starting to shutter overseas operations. Criterion has laid off staff. Kino reports that sales numbers decline year after year. It’s not over, yet, but discs will never again reach the marketplace dominance they once had, and that is because the mainstream consumer is no longer interested in them.

Josh,

That should become a sticky post on its own.

Thank You!

 

[Josh Steinberg]

Thanks Ron, appreciate the kind words. I take no joy in the idea that the type of collecting that has been a lifelong hobby is fading away, and I don’t write any of that with glee. But I genuinely believe our membership would be better served to understand what is happening right now and why, so they can make informed decisions about what purchases and upgrades in equipment and content they wish to make. We’re in the middle of a prolonged going out of business fire sale, not at the start of a resurgence that will overtake and destroy streaming.

 

[Indy Guy]

Thanks Ron, appreciate the kind words. I take no joy in the idea that the type of collecting that has been a lifelong hobby is fading away, and I don’t write any of that with glee. But I genuinely believe our membership would be better served to understand what is happening right now and why, so they can make informed decisions about what purchases and upgrades in equipment and content they wish to make. We’re in the middle of a prolonged going out of business fire sale, not at the start of a resurgence that will overtake and destroy streaming.

I think Josh's assessment is a very accurate account of what is happening today. As to the future of collecting, there are factors we cannot yet see that will have effects on nitch marketing moving forward.
I started my film obsession with silent Castle Film's. Castle made 8mm condensations of classics like Bride of Frankenstein. They ran 9 minutes, were silent, B&W and cost $6 dollars each. Nine minute silent color cartoons or abridged films were $24 and approached $50 for color/sound shorts. Those prices were based on increased market limitations tied to added feature costs, so prices dramatically increased for adding quality featutes with lower demand. Very few people had or could afford an 8mm sound projector.
In the late 70's when I was able to buy a used Super 8 Sound projector, I also discovered niche distributors like Durran films in the UK. Durran actually had the rights to Disney's animation classics. My first purchase was a complete Cinemascope stereo print of Sleeping Beauty. The cost was approximately $250 US! The point being, studios then as now will not leave money on the table, even if it is a fraction of what other distribution methods may bring.
It's now becoming apparent that streaming is also not the gold mine it was thought to be. As always, it will be a matter of adjusting prices to offset lower demands to make profit margins work. Look for higher costs as these metrics shifts downward, but with that strategy comes potential to increased quality to appeal to smaller niche demands.
Regarding the current slide in demand for physical media, nobody talks much about the maturing of all our film collections. I passed by dusty shelves in Target and Best Buy for months before they dramatically reduced their inventory. The disc boxes were stale enough to be scuffed and dinged with dog eared corners. It wasn't that nobody was collecting discs...it was rather most people snapped them up when they were released. Add to that, DVD quality is good enough for many. Less than half of disc buyers were eager to upgrade to Blu ray, and even less to 4K.
That's why Barnes and Noble, Walmart and Target now primarily stock only DVD for catalogue titles. The only Big Box store to continue favoring HD is Best Buy as their business is AV.
Most of us stop upgrading when we feel the copy we have is good enough. That's a huge factor with companies like Disney no longer having impact when unveiling variants with new slipcovers or even streaming classics "for the first time!" Potential audiences have been enjoying the full Disney catalogue since VHS .
I think the future could move more towards what Arrow is doing with deluxe special editions, or modeling the higher cost/lower demand factor into release strategies like Imprint's Invaders From Mars.
To look at a parallel, here is a recent republished book edition of Swiss Family Robinson by Easton Press. It costs around $260 and the print run is limited to 600. Only 70 copies remain. Demand and profit margin work out when the niche product meets the criteria of a very finite audience.

 

[Bryan^H]

The majority of remaining disc buyers.

For a brief moment in history circa 2000-2004, the relative inexpensiveness of DVD relative to VHS combined with its widespread availability made it oftentimes cheaper and more convenient to purchase a disc than it had been to rent a tape. It temporarily crossed from a niche to mainstream market. But over time, the majority of these new buyers found that they did not watch their purchases as much as expected nor did they want extra stuff piling up in their homes.

As HDTV replaced standard definition, and streaming became available, the mainstream market moved away from disc purchases towards streaming for its inexpensive offerings, relatively high quality and ease of use.

Blu-ray debuted amidst a physical media format war that consumers weren’t interested in participating in, and right at the precipice of an economic crash that negatively affected the buying power of a generation.

When the dust settled, the upgrade path for most mainstream users was trading standard definition TVs and DVDs for high definition TVs and streaming.

That left the disc buying market with two different but completely opposite set of niche buyers: technical enthusiasts who sought a higher quality perceived to be only available on disc, and technical luddites (to put it bluntly) that were uncomfortable with or incapable of streaming. This group includes the some of the elderly, for whom learning a new technology was too difficult or something they just weren’t interested in; lower-income people for whom upgrades were out of reach financially; and institutions like libraries and colleges, who were not going to dump perfectly serviceable collections and existing equipment in favor of increasingly niche products.

As the quality of internet access and streaming has increased in the past decade, it has crossed a threshold among many of the holdout enthusiasts into a level of quality and offerings that at last met their needs. They, too, also discovered they didn’t watch their physical media purchases as much as expected and didn’t need to possess physical objects for everything they watched.

In short: after DVD, most people moved onto streaming, not Blu-ray. The people who remained loyal to discs were largely those uninterested in or incapable of using streaming or Blu-ray.

At this point, if DVD were to be eliminated entirely, the majority of those customers would move to streaming, not another disc based format.

As enthusiasts participating on an enthusiast forum, we’re a niche of a niche. We sometimes miss that this has long been happening around us. Brick and mortar stores didn’t abandon physical media out of some conspiracy that the studios wanted to take away discs; they abandoned it because mainstream customers stopped buying it, and real estate is too expensive for mainstream stores to support non-mainstream interests.

The increased output you see amongst boutique labels isn’t because discs are selling like hotcakes. It’s the opposite. Because discs barely sell now compared to twenty years ago, studios no longer charge high licensing fees, and boutique labels are in a mad dash to get out as much product as possible before what’s left of the physical media marketplace implodes. Warner and Universal combined their home video operations because neither on their own was making enough money to justify continuing at it alone; in their filings for the establishment of their joint endeavor, they estimated physical media had maybe ten years of life left in it, and that was about five years ago. Sony no longer presses discs domestically where they once used to be a major player in that space, and is starting to shutter overseas operations. Criterion has laid off staff. Kino reports that sales numbers decline year after year. It’s not over, yet, but discs will never again reach the marketplace dominance they once had, and that is because the mainstream consumer is no longer interested in them.

My post may have been observed in poor taste as I was looking down on people still buying DVD. I didn't mean it that way. In fact I applaud the people that still care enough to make a physical purchase no matter the format or their age. Just looking at it from a HT hobbyist perspective, and not the general public.

A few months ago my parents wanted to have a movie night at home. They decided on Jurassic World Dominion. They are both 82, and do not know how to use the BD player that they have had for years. So for convenience I told them to use the Xfinity cable remote with the "microphone" button. I said all you have to do is push the microphone button on the remote, and say what you want to watch. Then use the same button and say closed captions (they cannot hear well). They did and it went perfect for them. This is how conveient it has become to watch a films at home. It is fool proof. No scratched, or smudged discs that won't play, and no guess work. Just say what you want, and like magic it appears.

 

[Josh Steinberg]

First time I got one of those Roku remotes that had a microphone I was like “who uses this?” Then I visited my mom and she picked up her remote and said “Play This Is Us” and my question was answered!

My mother, bless her, has had a lifelong hatred of wires, electronics boxes, clutter, multiple remote controls and buttons. This idea of a “smart TV” that just plugs into the wall, one remote, all the apps built into the TV, that’s her lifelong dream.

 

[Edwin-S]

Frankly, predicting the death of.d8sc based movies is just alarmist. The death of vinyl was predicted with the advent of CDs, but vinyl is still here decades after it was supposedly supposed to be dead.

Streaming got popular for ine reason. It was vastly cheaper than both discs and cable/satellite TV. The costs.of streaming, especially multiple services, is approaching the cost of cable/satellite packages that people abandoned for.streaming. I can see people cutting out streaming services just.like they did cable TV.

In fact, I read one story where younger people.were.starting to look at.physucal media again. It.could be a fad, but it demonstrates that the death of physical media is not a set-in-stone reality.

 

[Robert Crawford]

Please, I don't want this thread to turn into another physical media dying or streaming is the future thread.

 

[Josh Steinberg]

Please, I don't want this thread to turn into another physical media dying or streaming is the future thread.

Absolutely correct, my apologies for the tangent.

 

[Edwin-S]

Please, I don't want this thread to turn into another physical media dying or streaming is the future thread.

Sorry, there was no intent to derail the thread. I'll leave it at that.

 

[Bryan^H]

Looks like I will be buying this twice in 3D, and 4K. Something I have not done since WB released their movies in such a way.

 

[B-ROLL]

And if you belong to the Disney Movie Club, there is this option---

View attachment 184940

I think they've upped the ante a bit - I beleive you still have to buy a regular-priced item to get the discount -

Confirmed (but not ordered Free shipping is part of the current B1 get 50% most other items offer.

 

[Colin Jacobson]

I think they've upped the ante a bit - I beleive you still have to buy a regular-priced item to get the discount -

View attachment 185386 Confirmed (but not ordered Free shipping is part of the current B1 get 50% most other items offer.
View attachment 185392

Yeah, that's always part of the discount. Ya gotta buy something at regular price but then can get as many discounted titles as ya want.

 

[JoshZ]

Just wanted to provide an update...

I preordered from BestBuy last week. There was a charge that appeared on my credit card statement as PENDING. Took a few days, but the charge disappeared.

So, at least for me, BestBuy isn't solidifying the charge until the shipping date.

Funnily, when I check my bank balance right now, I have a pending credit for $30.80 labeled as "Checkcard Reversal Bestbuy.com."

 

[Sam Favate]

Is there a reason Amazon doesn't promise to deliver this until July 17? Other than the usual Amazon douchebaggery associated with Disney titles?

Just curious. I ordered the steelbook from Best Buy.

 

[Kyle_D]

Is there a reason Amazon doesn't promise to deliver this until July 17? Other than the usual Amazon douchebaggery associated with Disney titles?

Just curious. I ordered the steelbook from Best Buy.

Pretty sure it's just the usual Amazon/Disney tomfoolery.